Evidence of meeting #18 for Declaration of Emergency in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was list.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
The description was changed on January 22, after which you asked additional questions on January 26.
I would be interested in hearing what led you to disburse funds on January 27, because, obviously, things were evolving. The campaign appeared to have been changing, but GoFundMe disbursed funds to Tamara Lich on January 27, if I understand your previous testimony.
6:55 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.
Yes, we distributed funds through our payment processing partner on January 27, after receiving a letter of attestation from Tamara Lich explaining in greater detail how she planned to distribute the funds to participants involved in the convoy and ensure that those participants had been involved only in the peaceful aspects of it.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
Thank you.
I'm a bit confused as to how only five days later you actually suspended the fundraising campaign. Based on your introduction, you indicated that between February 2 and February 4 you took measures to suspend the campaign.
What caused this change only a few days after disbursing a significant sum to Tamara Lich?
6:55 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.
This situation was extremely unusual. The vast majority of campaigns on GoFundMe are for medical, memorial and emergency issues. The facts of this campaign, our discussions and interactions with Ms. Lich and her campaign organizing associates were changing. The facts on the ground were changing. Everything was happening very quickly, and so on a campaign that had started on January 14, and was within our terms of service, it became clear between January—
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
6:55 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
There were conversations with individuals in the City of Ottawa and the Ottawa police. We were seeing our own social media and other social news information about things becoming less peaceful on the ground, if you will, and also our situations with Ms. Lich were changing. She wasn't responding to our outreach. She wasn't co-operating in the way that she had been—
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Rachel Bendayan Liberal Outremont, QC
I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm almost at the end of my questioning round. I do appreciate that you're about to explain some of the conversations you had with Ms. Lich.
Given I have such limited time, may I ask you please to provide the committee with the attestation you referred to that Ms. Lich provided to GoFundMe, as well as any correspondence between you and Ms. Tamara Lich between those dates so we may understand the testimony you're providing today?
6:55 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
Thank you for the question.
I'm happy to provide the letter of attestation. I'm not sure there are any notes of conversations with Ms. Lich during that time, but to the extent there are, we will provide them. I—
6:55 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
She had essentially stopped responding to our team. That was part of the problem as well.
6:55 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Thank you very much.
We will now go to Monsieur Fortin pour cinq minutes.
Monsieur Fortin, the floor is yours.
6:55 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being with us today, Ms. Wilford.
I gather from your remarks that there were a lot of developments between January 27 and February 5, developments that led you to pull GoFundMe's fundraiser, I mean Ms. Lich's convoy fundraiser.
What developments exactly led you to that decision? You touched on it, saying that Ms. Lich no longer met your terms of service. You also said that she was no longer answering your calls or emails. Could you tell us clearly what happened?
What changed with Ms. Lich between January 27 and February 5?
7 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.
Between January 27 and February 2, GoFundMe was continuing to monitor this fundraiser. We were also reviewing multiple reports from local authorities describing the convoy protest as being violent and dangerous. Our teams were reaching out to the local police as well as the mayor and were speaking to individuals and their teams to get real-time, credible information as to how the situation was changing on the ground.
Our terms of service are very clear that we will not support fundraisers that are in support of hate, violence, harassment or intolerance of any kind. What had started as a peaceful protest, and within our terms of service, was now falling outside those terms.
We had also had—
7 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I understand, Ms. Wilford.
The information indicating that things had changed was coming from the mayor and the chief of police.
Is that correct, or did someone else give you that information?
7 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
On February 2, our team spoke directly with Deputy Chief Bell. On February 3, I spoke myself with Mayor Watson. So, we were getting direct, credible information.
7 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Those were the two people telling you that the situation had changed and that things had turned violent on the ground, here, in Ottawa. That's why you took down the fundraiser.
Is that correct?
7 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
That fed into it. We also had had a direct connection. The team was working with Ms. Lich and her team, but then she stopped responding to them promptly. In fact, she held a press conference that suggested we were working with her, and our team had not had any interaction with her.
We were trying to get more information as to how she planned to distribute the funds and ensure that none of the amounts ended up in the hands of people who weren't part of the peaceful protest. We weren't able to reach her and get that confirmation, so there were a number of factors that contributed to our decision to remove the fundraiser.
7 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
I see.
You said that Mr. Watson, the mayor, and Mr. Bell, the chief of police, told you that the protest was turning violent.
What did they tell you exactly? What did that violence look like? What was going on? What events exactly did you base your decision on—that is, if you were aware of them?
Perhaps your decision was based solely on the fact that you were told the protest was becoming violent. However, if you were made aware of specific events, I'd like to know what they were.
What alleged events led you to make the decision you did?
7 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
We heard there were multiple cases of disruptive, inappropriate and threatening behaviour from demonstrators.
We heard from Chief Peter Sloly that there were active criminal investigations involving threats of assault and the dangerous operation of vehicles. Mayor Watson remarked that protesters were harassing, threatening and intimidating and that there was disgraceful behaviour like stealing and carrying swastika signs.
We also heard that protesters had been charged with criminal offences, that hotel rooms were being vandalized and that there was threatening behaviour to a number of the citizens of Ottawa.
7 p.m.
Bloc
7 p.m.
Bloc
The Joint Chair Bloc Rhéal Fortin
Thank you.
You mentioned the mayor, Mr. Watson, and Chief Bell, but as I understand it, Chief Sloly spoke with you as well. In addition to Ms. Lich, the people who provided you with information were Mr. Watson, Mr. Bell and Mr. Sloly.
Do I have that right?
7 p.m.
General Counsel, GoFundMe
Yes, they gave our team information. I myself only spoke to Mayor Watson, and other individuals who are on our team were speaking to Chief Bell and Mr. Sloly.
7:05 p.m.
NDP
The Joint Chair NDP Matthew Green
Mr. Fortin, I'm going to hand you the chair. Please have a timer prepared for my five-minute intervention.
Thank you very much.