Evidence of meeting #19 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was politics.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Absolutely.
We're pausing. We're not going to count this as time.
I would also like to give Ms. Northam an opportunity. We'll be a bit generous and flexible.
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We'll be generous and flexible. You'll probably get more than that, but not for—
2:45 p.m.
Liberal
2:45 p.m.
Prof. Melanee Thomas
I would not say that this is the thing that keeps women out of politics.
That said, I am going to be broadly and enthusiastically supportive of many things that restrict or regulate campaign finance. With regard to the stuff that you're talking about, I would put my general elections hat on and say, sure, regulate that and I would support it. However, is this the thing? Is this the big and formal barrier that's keeping women and visible minorities out? No, it's not. I think that suggesting that this is somehow it is distracting from that 169 number. This is not the excuse. It's just not.
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Sure.
I want to clarify that I don't think this is the be-all and end-all. I know that one of the barriers that often prohibits women from running is the fact that they perhaps don't have the same networks that their male counterparts do to raise funding. That's my concern.
With regard to the comment on most of the funding being directed toward general election campaign expenses, I spent the day yesterday—
2:50 p.m.
Liberal
2:50 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Actually, it was close to $1.2 million out of that total that was spent on specific ridings, so it does make a difference.
Ms. Northam, could you comment?
2:50 p.m.
Campaigner-Electoral Reform, Leadnow.ca
I just have a quick comment.
It's that we're a member-driven organization and this is not an issue we've engaged our community on specifically, so I can't make a comment on behalf of them.
2:50 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I will begin with you, Mr. Massicotte.
Earlier today, when we were discussing alternative vote, I made the following analogy: imagine I want to buy an electric car but end up with a pick-up. So I am happy to hear you say that MMP is indeed a Mercedes. It is probably the best of both worlds and more accurately represents the reality of the parties. In fact, it is a standard, a value we in the NDP support.
You are an engineer of electoral systems and an expert on certain countries, including Germany. Change does of course give rise to much uncertainty, but I would like to demystify certain things.
Take for example a voter in Germany who goes to the poll. How does a person vote? Once the results are translated into seats in parliament, how do the parties function in general to form a stable government?
2:50 p.m.
Prof. Louis Massicotte
Thank you for your question, Mr. Boulerice.
As to the way a person votes, the ballot is similar to ours, except that there are two options. On the left side of the ballot, the voter can choose a candidate and, on the right, they can vote for a party, that is, the list created by a party. So the voter casts two votes instead of just one. It is possible, by the way, to use the same system with a single vote for a candidate, if the vote is counted both for the candidate and for the party the candidate represents.
As to forming a government, that is a bit more complicated. The results are known quickly. I follow German elections, which are held at noon on Sundays. It is almost a ritual, I have followed them for several years now. The results are available very quickly. Many countries—and I am not referring to Canada—would do well to proceed that way.
How is a government formed? The results are reviewed that night. Then the political parties begin their negotiations. Sometimes they have already indicated their affiliation, but that is not always the case, simply because the outcome is not known. In the last federal election, for example, it was not expected that the liberal democrats would be wiped out.
The political parties negotiate amongst themselves. The head of state is not involved in this process. After a month or two—and rarely more than two months—depending on the circumstances, a coalition agreement is reached. It is a long and complex document. Ultimately, it is the result of the negotiations that took place among the various political parties that were willing to form a coalition.
There are various types of coalitions. Typically, the Christian democrats have allied themselves with the liberal democrats and the greens with the social democrats. This has changed in the past few years though. In two places, I believe, the Christian democrats are now allied with the greens. This change was brought about by the circumstances. The socialists have aligned themselves with the liberals in the past. The extreme left was viewed in the past as an unsuitable coalition partner. In the Länder or states of the former East Germany, at least, it is now considered an acceptable partner.
2:50 p.m.
NDP
Alexandre Boulerice NDP Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC
Thank you.
Ms. Thomas, as you know, we are concerned about the representation of women in the NDP. In the last election, we were very proud to be the party with the highest percentage of women candidates: 43%, which is quite high.
You are correct about the barriers outside the voting system. Some institutions make it very difficult for women to run. Having been involved in candidate recruitment myself, I can say that a number of socioeconomic or societal factors could improve the participation of women.
Our colleague Kennedy Stewart presented a bill to encourage or even force political parties to increase the representation of women in the candidates they put forward. That is not the only approach possible, but I would like to know if you think the type of incentive put forward by our colleague Mr. Stewart would be effective.
In your opinion, is there some other way we could increase the representation of women?
Right now, women represent just 26% of MPs in Canada. That means we rank 62nd in the world in this regard, which is not very impressive.
2:55 p.m.
Prof. Melanee Thomas
I would always say at this point, because the numbers required to achieve parity are so small, that individual-level barriers are not the problem. This means that we actually have to have an institutional solution. I've spoken with Jeannette Ashe, who is a research colleague of mine in another institution, and I believe it's similar to this particular bill that you've mentioned.
I would support penalizing parties on their election reimbursements if they cannot field parity slates. As we know, a great deal of political parties' election-based financing comes from campaign reimbursements. You spend a certain amount, and then you can get 80% of it back. That should be, in my view, docked depending on how few women or visible minorities a party fields. Something tells me that if you tie diversity to the money, parties will solve the problem overnight. They just will.
2:55 p.m.
Liberal
August 30th, 2016 / 2:55 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
Mr. Massicotte, I really enjoyed your presentation, especially toward the end, when you explained that, if we had a mixed-member proportional system, the list system would have to work by province. I am very amenable to the idea of protecting the rights of the Quebec nation, since we do not have the same debates or the same references.
You said that we should go by province. In your opinion, would there be any other mechanisms to ensure the protection of the Quebec nation?
2:55 p.m.
Prof. Louis Massicotte
At first glance, I don't think so. I actually don't think a national list was ever seriously considered. And it shouldn't be anyway. I will explain why.
Canada is a federation. Consider how federations proceed in such matters. In Germany, there is no national list. That has already been mentioned. Sections of parties in the länder—German federal states—have all insisted on preparing lists of candidates.
I think it is much more difficult to have a national list in a federal country.
2:55 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
You think that, if we had such a system, the lists would have to be established in each province or in each region.
2:55 p.m.
Prof. Louis Massicotte
That is the practice and it's fairly common.
2:55 p.m.
Bloc
Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC
Thank you.
The committee is preparing to tour Canada. We will then submit a report in December. For the system to be modified in time for the next election, everything would have to be adopted by next May.
Considering our experience in Quebec, do you believe that's a realistic time frame?
2:55 p.m.
Prof. Louis Massicotte
Quebec did not adopt a reform. So it is difficult for me to say how quickly it could happen.