Yes.
Evidence of meeting #26 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was please.
Evidence of meeting #26 for Electoral Reform in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was please.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
For people who are visually impaired, though, when you go into the polling station don't they have a grid they put over it? They tell you whose name is first, second, third, or fourth, then the official leaves, you remember that the candidate in position C is the one you want, and you make that notation. Doesn't that somewhat resolve the problem?
7:05 p.m.
Member and Research Analyst, Council of Canadians with Disabilities
That allows the individual to mark the ballot, but when I discussed it with my colleague John Rae, who is our first vice-chair, he said that after the last election he wasn't really sure when he marked his ballot with the template if it had been affixed to the template correctly and if he had the X in the right spot. He couldn't independently verify it.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON
Right. That's the advantage of the audio feedback, if you have that kind of system.
I should mention, by the way, on the voting by telephone where you would hear that feedback, that we actually do it in the town where I live. I was suspicious of it beforehand, and I was impressed by it afterwards, for what that's worth. Now, that's for a town of 5,000 people, and the security issues are fewer and so on, but it was interesting to note.
As a final question here, we've talked about trying to increase voter participation through changing voting systems. I don't mean to diminish the validity of trying to search for solutions that achieve that goal. But am I right in asserting that for people with disabilities the main effort ought to be in ensuring the most thorough follow-through possible with Elections Canada's post-election report on all the myriad little problems that exist with accessibility, such as the location of polling stations, the access to polling stations, the ability to...? Am I right in that? Is that the main focus we ought to be having?
7:05 p.m.
Second Vice-Chair, Council of Canadians with Disabilities
You're right. We need to commit to learning from the mistakes that were made.
September 20th, 2016 / 7:05 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you to our witnesses.
I offer a particular thank you to all of you who turned out here tonight in beautiful Winnipeg. It's the hot ticket in town.
7:05 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
7:05 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
We all have a serious affliction that we should probably talk about later.
Professor Thomas, I don't want to paraphrase your comments too much, but I would suggest, from hearing you testify, that there was something to the effect that you're generally satisfied with the voting system as it is, the first past the post model as it applies to Canada. Is that fair?
7:05 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Yes. Generally, I think some of the problems are not caused by the design of the system. Dare I say they're caused in part by political behaviour?
7:05 p.m.
NDP
7:05 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
7:05 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Let me express some dissatisfaction and have you perhaps address it. I'm going to frame this in terms of the 40% or 30% of Canadians who don't vote, which all political actors say we're concerned about. When people don't vote, they don't pay attention. Whole groups are under-represented. Traditionally, those are low-income groups, first nations, women, and people with disabilities. Is that a fair assessment?
7:05 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Yes, absolutely.
7:05 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Getting voter turnout up would be good. The Elections Manitoba report that came out today suggested that under a proportional system as much as half of the voters who didn't vote in the last provincial election would vote under a proportional system.
7:05 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I haven't read that report. I've only read the press release. The turnout issue is more complicated in terms of the reasons why people fail to vote. The largest category of reasons are the everyday things in your life, like “I forgot”, “I'm too busy”—
7:05 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Different polls have told us different things. Elections Manitoba.... The last poll done by Probe told a different set of reasons in terms of what was the top priority.
I'll just say this to conclude, Mr. Cullen, on this point. The simplest, least expensive way to bring turnout up is to make voting mandatory. You'll get close to 90% or above 90%. If turnout is your measure of the health of democracy—
7:10 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
It is one.
7:10 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Here's another measure.
We rank 64th in the world in terms of women in our Parliament right now. We know, through evidence, that proportional systems give us far greater representation of women, far better policies on issues like social justice, climate change. This is research that this committee has heard.
As a country, we have not done a good job in terms of the determinants of health, social justice issues, and the gap between those who have and have not, nor have we done a good job to this point on issues that are longer term, like climate change. There has been an implicit connection—more than anecdotal—an empirical connection, between voters having greater power and votes being equally represented by the vote in terms of the seats that are elected.
I want to speak to the distortion factor. It is that 39%, or less in some cases, gives you 100% of the power under our current system. One of the reasons people suggest that they lose faith is that they don't feel their vote is a voice, that it has no power. We should keep that regional connection that you talked about by the way. I think that's important, but why not give every vote the power to effect change, rather than the current system in which in the last election more than nine million, more than half of the votes cast, went toward anyone actually becoming elected?
7:10 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I should have kept track of all those points. Let me start at the end.
The idea that votes are wasted because I vote for a candidate who doesn't get elected is a misunderstanding, it seems to me, of the nature of democracy. I could vote for a lifetime in the most affluent constituency in Manitoba, Tuxedo, for the NDP, and I could see myself building support for the party more generally.
So that's one—
7:10 p.m.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Sorry, so I vote for a lifetime and the only thing I get for it is something about maybe nominally building support. I want to affect what happens in my life.
7:10 p.m.
Professor Emeritus, Political Studies, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I know you do, but voting is not the only way you can do that.
