Environment Committee on June 7th, 2007

[Basia Ruta]

At some point, yes, all of the expenses would go through the department.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Not through your department, but through your office.

[Basia Ruta]

Yes.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Through your branch.

[Basia Ruta]

Indeed, the expenditures of Environment Canada.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Yes, of course.

Do you know Denis Simard? Does that name ring a bell?

[Basia Ruta]

No.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

He works at Environment Canada. His name means nothing to you? If I tell you that he is the spokesperson for Environment Canada, does that ring a bell? Denis Simard, does that mean anything to anyone from the department? But you are all senior managers.

I will come back to Ms. Ruta afterwards.

[Michael Martin]

I know Denis Simard; he is an official with the Communications office.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Excellent.

With regard to the advertising campaign I talked about, I mentioned an amount of one million dollars, but it seems that the exact amount is $905,000. Does this number, for an advertising campaign, ring a bell, Ms. Ruta?

[Basia Ruta]

I have just received information according to which the actual amount is of approximately $900,000.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

We are just $5,000 off. Did you authorize this expenditure?

[Basia Ruta]

There are several managers who authorize expenditures and delegate budgets. I do not approve everything. There is a delegation at the program level, within the different budgets. As for the work that is done to ensure that there is proper authorization and that the necessary supporting documents are presented to justify the expense, that is where the finance people are involved for each transaction.

As Mr. Martin mentioned, it is my colleagues in Communications who are responsible for...

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

You did see this expenditure.

[Basia Ruta]

I am trying to see, but there is sometimes a gap. I have commitments...

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

In your estimation, did these $905,000 help reduce greenhouse gas emissions? Did this expenditure contribute to any reduction? From what envelope was this money taken? I am a little surprised, because I have read Mr. Simard's declarations. Do you know what the purpose of this $900,000 expense was? He stated that the campaign aimed at supporting the important announcement that had been made. This amount did not really help reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Therefore, we are not looking at a maximization of greenhouse gas emission reductions for each dollar invested, but rather at a promotion campaign for the government, in support of its climate change plan.

Is it a common occurrence, at the Department of the Environment, that every dollar invested be used for advertising campaigns rather than for programs aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions? Why was this million dollars not invested in home refit programs? Why did you not use this money to reduce greenhouse gas emissions instead of investing it in a communications plan? Is that common place in the Department? Do you often see such expenditures?

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, it is very important for Canadians to understand and to know about the actions of the Government of Canada in this area. As I stated earlier, the behaviour and the actions of individual Canadians, individual citizens, has an enormous impact on greenhouse gases and air pollutant emissions. Each and every one of us, in our lifestyles and the choice we make, contribute to the challenges of the environment, or the solution and resolution of those challenges. So I think it is critically important for Canadians to know what initiatives a government is taking in this area and why.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I understand what you are telling me, but what is the justification of a $900,000 expenditure to promote the climate change plan, when you determined that the One-Tonne Challenge Program of the previous government was ineffective and was not producing true reductions in greenhouse gas emissions?

What allows you to authorize an expenditure to promote an action plan that does not respect the Kyoto Protocol? Based upon departments' assessments, among others that of Treasury Board, you determined that the One-Tonne Challenge Program would not lead to the objectives being reached. How can you state today that this program, this advertising campaign, will allow Canadians to improve their environment, whereas the One-Tonne Challenge Program could not?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Very briefly, please, Ms. Ruta.

[Basia Ruta]

Yes, Mr. Chair. Thanks.

There are expenditures for advertising and communications, and these are standard expenditures across government.

On the question of whether there was good value for money, or money well spent, those kinds of exercises usually occur after the fact, when you go through some type of program evaluation. And indeed, that may be the case.

But a lot of communications and advertising is coordinated centrally, as my colleague Mr. Martin said, to describe certain issues or platforms to Canadians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I'm sorry, Mr. Bigras, your time is way over.

Mr. Allen, please.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Being an accountant and a bean counter, when it comes to the year-end and the $1.5 billion and a couple of other things with respect to comments made by the Commissioner of the Environment in her report, I can't resist asking some questions.

Just so I understand, would you have booked the $1.519 billion from 2006-07 in your department's book as an accrual at year-end?

[Basia Ruta]

It's not in Environment Canada's books. As we mentioned, this would be the Department of Finance's books.

[Mike Allen, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Whose budget does it come from?

[Basia Ruta]

It would not be from Environment Canada's budget. The Department of Finance is accountable for that.