Environment Committee on June 7th, 2007

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry I'm not able to answer that question. I don't know what funds were spent on an advertising campaign. As I said, I would be pleased to seek that information and provide it to the committee as quickly as possible.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Would it be possible to find an official who could talk to us about this advertising campaign? It was heard by all Canadians and aimed at promoting the Canadian government's plan for fighting climate change. Would it be possible to find an official, among the three who are present here, who has heard the ad and who is able to tell us its aim and how much money the government invested in it? I am not asking for the moon.

All of us heard the ad. Might we be told what the objective of this advertising campaign was? I believe that Canadians should be told. What was the purpose of this advertising campaign? How much did it cost? Lastly, what envelope did you dig into to mount this advertising campaign on the Baird plan for combating climate change? This is an expenditure that was made less than a month ago, some two or three weeks ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Again, Mr. Martin, I think it would be very helpful, if there is a person who is responsible for that program in whichever department it is, if they could indicate who it is. And of course there must be a proposal and an expenditure and so on. If you could provide that to the clerk, that would answer Mr. Bigras' question and also get it for all the other members.

Mr. Bigras.

[Michael Martin]

Certainly, Mr. Chairman, we have taken careful note of the request and will provide that information as quickly as possible.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Lussier.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Martin, could you give us the breakdown, per participant, of the ecoTrust program targeting the provinces? I have two numbers in my head: the first relates to the Ontario-Canada agreement negotiated by the Liberal government and amounting to some 550 million dollars, and the second one relates to the 355 million dollar agreement signed with Quebec. Are these two totals still valid? How is the rest of the 1.5 billion dollars shared out among the provinces?

[Michael Martin]

The trust fund for clean air and climate change, as I stated, is $1.519 billion and was allocated among the provinces.

If it would be helpful, I could run the precise allocation by province. Would that be helpful, Monsieur Lussier?

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Yes.

[Michael Martin]

For the province of British Columbia, the trust fund commits $199.3 million; for the province of Alberta, $159.9 million; for Saskatchewan, $44.4 million; for Manitoba, $53.8 million; for Ontario, $586.2 million; for the province of Quebec, $349.9 million; for New Brunswick, $34 million; for Nova Scotia, $42.5 million; for Prince Edward Island, $15 million; and for Newfoundland and Labrador, $23 million. And then for each of the Yukon, the Northwest Territories, and Nunavut, there is $5 million each. That represents $1.519 billion committed through the trust fund.

If it's helpful, Mr. Chairman, we can provide a summary of that. All of those amounts were announced publicly, in partnership with the provinces, including a list of initiatives that the provinces may choose to use these funds for. We could provide a summary to the committee if it would be helpful, but I'm afraid I do not have a summary today available in both official languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I think Mr. Lussier is asking for that, so it would be very helpful.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Martin has to a certain extent answered my second question, that is if there are conditions tied to the cheque for 349.9 million dollars for Quebec. What are these conditions that are set out? You touched upon the issue by saying that provincial governments might have to identify where these amounts will be invested. Is this a condition that is part of the contract or agreement?

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, the trust fund arrangement does not impose conditions on provinces. It reflects an agreement reached and reflected in the press releases that were made public at the time. There are no other conditions imposed by this arrangement.

At the time of the announcement of the contribution to the Government of Quebec, the Prime Minister, I think, announced that this was a contribution in support of the Government of Quebec's climate change plan, and those funds were in Quebec's climate change plan, specifically requested. And I think specific initiatives were identified to support the full implementation of Quebec's climate change plan.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Martin, you talked of two budget years. Among all of the budget measures announced, which ones will continue from year to year? For example, in the case of the contributions for bus passes and the scrappage program for older vehicles, are these programs that will last one year or that will be rolled over with each budget? Is there some permanence for these programs?

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, I think most of these programs extend beyond more than a single fiscal year. I apologize, Mr. Lussier, on the second one you mentioned, I could run through what I believe is the profile of some of these initiatives, if you wouldn't mind repeating the ones you are particularly interested in.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

What about the old cars?

[Michael Martin]

The budget commitment is over two fiscal years, beginning in the current fiscal year.

[Marcel Lussier, Bloc, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

For fuel-efficient cars, consumers have a guarantee for 5, 10 or 20 years?

[Michael Martin]

That program has been funded over two fiscal years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you to the officials for coming today.

I think there is some difficulty in your position only because the experience we've had with respect to the government's plans on climate change spending is that the spending announcements have rarely added up to what's actually gone out the door. This is not me saying this; it is the Auditor General of Canada. Whereas previous governments have claimed as much as $5 billion to $5.5 billion spent publicly, when we go through the books and audit it, the previous government had a record of spending a little less than $2 billion; $1.7 billion was one of the figures proposed. So you can understand not just the anxiety but the frustration in trying to ascertain what is being spent so that Canadians can feel some sense of assurance as to what the government is saying it is doing is what is happening.

I would like to focus for a moment on the ecoTrust initiative. Are there contracts with the provinces? Is there a formal document between the federal government and each of the provinces as to what is meant to be done with the money?

[Michael Martin]

Mr. Chairman, in terms of the specifics of the trust fund arrangement, how the moneys are transferred to the trustee, and how the provinces then access that money through the trustee, I would have to defer to the Department of Finance.

There is no intergovernmental MOU or agreement beyond what was announced publicly covering those arrangements, so in that respect it is different from the program of the previous government and what I think was called the partnership fund.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Yes, and different again even from any retrofit program announcements and bus transit allocations, those types of things. I want to be clear.

I know there are contractual arrangements between Finance and the provinces in terms of the physical allocation of the money, but there's nothing specific saying Alberta should do this or British Columbia might consider this or British Columbia has agreed for sure to spend money on this. That's not something the federal government negotiated.

[Michael Martin]

When each contribution or commitment was announced, a press release was issued in agreement with each province and territory, and in each case a list of possible initiatives that would be taken by the province or territory--

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Which the federal government is comfortable with, I assume, right? They wouldn't agree to send them the money without that agreement.