Evidence of meeting #64 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Richard Carignan  Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
Dave McCartney  Manager, Wastewater and Drainage Service, City of Ottawa, Canadian Water and Wastewater Association
Bob Friesen  President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
John Carey  Director General, Water Science and Technology, National Water Research Institute
Christine Melnick  Minister, Water Stewardship, Government of Manitoba
Dwight Williamson  Director, Water Science and Management Branch, Water Stewardship Department, Government of Manitoba
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Justin Vaive

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Thank you, Mr. Vellacott.

Thank you very much appearing. Again, I'm sorry for the short time, but--

12:55 p.m.

Minister, Water Stewardship, Government of Manitoba

Christine Melnick

If I could let folks know, there is an English version of this report on the Government of Manitoba, Department of Water Stewardship site, and they're welcome to it.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Great. Thank you very much. Thank you for appearing.

Members, perhaps we could now deal with Mr. Bigras' motion.

I would ask you to put the motion, Mr. Bigras, please.

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It is a pleasure for me to introduce a motion that is not entirely the one that is presented here, since I have a few changes to propose in light of the presentations this morning. I'm going to read the new motion that I am introducing:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development recommend that the government amend the Phosphorous Concentration Regulations in order to prohibit the concentration of phosphorous in laundry detergents and dishwasher detergents and that the adoption of this motion be reported to the House at the earliest opportunity.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Mr. Warawa.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

We will get a copy of that exchange so everybody has that.

Mr. Warawa, and then Mr. Cullen.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Thank you, Chair.

I'm going to be moving an amendment. I appreciate the efforts of Mr. Bigras. In fact, the Bloc tabled the motion without even hearing any of the witnesses. It's important that we don't have our minds made up before we hear from the witnesses. It's putting the cart before the horse. We have to be careful that we base our decisions on testimony we've heard. Some accuse politicians of the expression, “Don't confuse me with the facts.” Well, I think we need the facts.

We've heard conflicting testimony here today, and it was so rushed. I think we need to hear more. I'm hoping Mr. Bigras would accept as a friendly amendment that we first hear from some more witnesses. So I would make the amendment that, after “Sustainable Development”, it would read as follows: “hold further hearings on the issue of phosphorus to study the possible impacts on the environment”.

I agree that we need to look carefully at the impacts of phosphorus, but we want to be careful that our decisions are heading in the right direction. We want to focus on solutions.

So that's my amendment.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Mr. Bigras, do you accept that as a friendly amendment, or shall we discuss the amendment to your motion?

12:55 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Chairman, I can indeed accept my colleague's amendment on a friendly basis, but he must understand that it in no way changes the fact that we will be proposing a ban on phosphorous in laundry detergents and dishwashing detergents.

So our colleague proposes to continue studying the question, on which point I agree since we have not gotten to the bottom of things with regard to a certain number of factors, including the solution with regard to sustainable agriculture. All of us, including Manitoba's Minister of the Environment and Mr. Carignan have said this morning that, if we want, we can act quickly, particularly since substitutions are available. I don't want to cite the Minister of the Environment, but she has said that, when substitutions were available, a ban was possible.

So to the extent that the friendly amendment moved does not change the spirt of this motion, the aim of which is to ban phosphorous in laundry and dishwashing detergents, I will entirely agree.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Mr. Warawa, very briefly, please.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Yes. The intent is to get more information, and I would accept that it would be as soon as possible. We could meet this week if necessary, if the witnesses are still here on the Hill, or we could meet next week, but the intent is to get more information, not to stop your intent.

1 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Could the clerk reread the proposed friendly amendment to us so that we know how it fits into the motion that will be adopted in a few minutes?

June 12th, 2007 / 1 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Justin Vaive

The amendment put by Mr. Warawa would alter Mr. Bigras' motion in the following way: “That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on the Environment and Sustainable Development hold further hearings on the issue of phosphorus to study possible impacts on the environment.”

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Okay.

Mr. Cullen, we're discussing the amendment now.

1 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

I don't think it has been accepted.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

It hasn't been accepted, so it's on the floor. We haven't voted on it yet.

1 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

My comments are to the main one. I think what's been suggested is another thing entirely.

1 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Before giving my consent, I wanted to see the meaning of the motion. So that's why I wanted to ensure I had clearly understood.

To the extent that the friendly amendment changed the spirit of the motion, I could not be in favour of adopting it. What I understand is that we're going to vote on this motion and that there will be meetings so that we can discuss the matter in the context of future business. Mr. Warawa is instead proposing future business to determine what we're going to do in the coming meetings, if the House continues to sit, or even in the fall.

I do not accept his friendly amendment as moved, since it changes the spirit of the motion before us.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Chair, it doesn't change the spirit of the motion. But if he doesn't accept it as a friendly amendment, I move it as an amendment. It's an important topic and I think we need to hear from further witnesses on this.

After hearing from the witnesses, we may very well support the motion that's being proposed by Mr. Bigras, but at this point it's a motion that was put before we even heard from one witness. It is definitely putting the cart before the horse. We need to first hear from witnesses before we propose motions.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

We have Mr. Bigras' motion. Everyone understands what that is. We now have a new amendment to that, which changes the wording. We need to vote on that and get rid of that, then come back to Mr. Bigras' motion.

Mr. Scarpaleggia, did you want—

1 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

On a point of order, Chair, we don't want to get rid of an amendment; we want to vote on it.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

You want to vote, yes.

1 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

I think it's a reasonable amendment, Chair, so I'm hoping you're not recommending that we vote against that.

1 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

I would not recommend anything to the committee.

Mr. Scarpaleggia, are you speaking to the amendment to the motion?