Environment Committee on April 1st, 2008

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Great. So for me to deal with clause 10 and have an amendment dealt with, I would have to give the 48 hours' notice and—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Or have it done by February 22.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Okay. I told the committee I would be introducing that. I have done so today, and it'll be in both official languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Can we move on, then, to clause 10, as amended. The speaking order is as follows: Mr. Warawa, Mr. Vellacott, Mr. Harvey, Mr. Watson, Mr. Cullen, and possibly Mr. McGuinty.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

But before May 7.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I can't guarantee that.

By the way, in respect of the work plan, we will be cancelling all of the speakers.

Mr. Warawa.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Clause 10 reads:

10.(1) On or before May 31 of each year, the Minister shall prepare a statement setting out

(a) the measures taken by the Government of Canada to ensure that its commitment under section 5 and the targets set out in the target plan are being met, including measures taken in respect of

(i) regulated emission limits and performance standards,

(ii) market-based mechanisms such as emissions trading or offsets,

(iii) spending or fiscal incentives, including a just transition fund for industry, and

(iv) cooperation or agreements with provinces, territories or other governments; and

(b) the Canadian greenhouse gas emission reductions that are reasonably expected to result from each of those measures in each of the next ten years; and

(c) the level of Canadian greenhouse gas emissions in each of the following ten years to be used as a baseline to quantify the reductions referred to in paragraph (b).

What we're seeing, Chair, in Bill C-377 is, as I've said before, a very poorly written bill. It is missing the content that would see action. Mr. Cullen said that the committee needs to get to work, and it was yesterday that he suggested we have a motion on how we'd amend it. Unfortunately, when we did present an amendment here, it could have been accepted, but not surprisingly, Mr. Cullen did not want us to deal with that motion. It was a good motion, and it dealt with what Canada has now, the Turning the Corner plan.

The April 2007 regulatory framework for air emissions laid out the broad design of the regulations for industrial emissions of both greenhouse gases and air pollutants, and we see that missing in clause 10. This document, the Turning the Corner plan, sets out the final regulatory framework for industrial greenhouse gas emissions. It includes both an elaboration and a strengthening of the April 2007 regulatory framework.

The federal government still intends to work to reach equivalency agreements with any interested provinces that set enforceable provincial emission standards that are at least as stringent as the federal standards. We know that those standards in the Turning the Corner plan are the toughest in Canadian history. We're talking about absolute reductions of 20% by 2020 and 60% to 70% by 2050. These are the toughest in Canadian history, and they also include improvements to air quality through a mandatory requirement to clean up the air that Canadians breathe.

The final regulatory framework strengthens the April 2007 regulatory framework in three key respects. All oil sands, upgraders, and in situ plants that come into operation in 2012 or after will be required to meet a stringent target base on the use of carbon capture and storage by 2018.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Yes, I'm sorry, Mr. Bigras, on a point of order.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Why did you give the floor to Mr. Warawa? It seems to me that when the motion to adjourn was presented and voted upon yesterday, it was Mr. Harvey who had the floor. Why is it that today it is Mr. Warawa who has the floor?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Harvey made a motion to adjourn, and it was the chair's assumption that when he made that motion, he was finished speaking. Therefore, we went to the new speaking order, which had Mr. Warawa speaking first. So that's why Mr. Harvey didn't get the floor today. Had he not made that motion and it had been someone else, he would have carried on speaking today, but he made the motion himself.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, once you saw that four Conservative MPs raced to declare the intention to speak, did you ask this committee whether there were any other speakers who wanted to speak to this issue?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. McGuinty, I did not, but everybody's been in this committee for some time. We've done other clause-by-clause, and it's always been that you put up your hand if you want to speak.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Did you ask the committee, Mr. Chair? Did you ask--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I looked to both sides, yes.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Did you ask the committee, Mr. Chair, to have the members express...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I did not ask the committee members to put up their hands.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

How do you know, then, when they put up their hands, that they didn't want to go to the bathroom?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. McGuinty, their hands were up. I've been here long enough to know that they wanted to speak. So did you.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Is your recognition of them in consecutive speaking order a ruling then?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You know, Mr. McGuinty, if you'd had your hand up first when I put that gavel down, your name would have been down here first.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Chair, everybody knows what's going on here--everybody. All the Canadians watching know what's going on here. They know that they're taking instructions from Minister Baird. They know that this is a petulant reaction to his being called this morning to testify at the government operations committee. They know that they're filibustering a very progressive bill that has the support of all the opposition parties.

What I would like to ask is whether we are in a position to challenge your ruling about speaking order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I guess, Mr. McGuinty, I'm really not making a ruling. I'm trying to involve the committee as much as I can in making decisions. I think you know that. Obviously I am simply following the rules. I'm taking the advice of the clerks, because obviously they've been here much longer than I have.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Let me ask you again, sir. Do you have the discretion to change the speaking order on that list?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Not unless the entire committee tells me to do that when we make the rules initially.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

You have no discretion in terms of the speaking list.