Environment Committee on April 1st, 2008

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I have another point of order.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

So do I.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Godfrey, go ahead on your point.

Mr. McGuinty, I believe you have your answer.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I don't have my answer.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

You have the best answer I can give you.

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Maybe the clerk could actually call up to the other clerks and find out exactly how we would proceed and how quickly we could proceed in the House of Commons to break this filibuster.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

As I say, we can ask our researcher to do some research on that--I see nothing wrong with that--and report back to our committee.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

On the same point of order, does Mr. Cullen have a new point of order or is it—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I believe Mr. Godfrey has a point of order. Mr. Bigras has a point of order. I'm not sure if Mr. Cullen has another point of order.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I want to say something--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Regarding this one, I will ask the clerk to simply speak to that and clarify that for you. Then let's move on to Mr. Godfrey, and then to Mr. Bigras.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

It's the same point of order. I'd like to speak to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

But I believe it's a different point. I'm just getting an answer from the clerk, and then we're moving on from Mr. McGuinty to Mr. Godfrey.

Mr. Cullen.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You just talked about reference back to the House. Have you, as a chair or as a member of Parliament of some experience, ever seen this before, where the government has chosen to filibuster a private member's bill?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I have not.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You have not seen this before.

So in setting precedence of some form of accountability and democracy, this government has chosen to do something that you, as a chair and as a committee member on many different types of committees, have never seen. This government's form of accountability is to deny the rightful passage of legislation through the House of Commons. The majority of committee members feel that what they are choosing to do is to use a loophole within the rules to talk about rights and privilege. Government members are bearing no responsibility back to Canadian taxpayers, to their own constituents, and to Canadians who have a deep concern about this issue of climate change. We are called upon to address the issues of Canadians.

So there is no precedence to this, little morality to it, and no ethic in terms of accountability and true honest judgment. If the government simply doesn't like the bill, that is understandable. That happens to us all; we have legislation we don't like. But to hold up the entire progress of the environment committee and all the work we want to do is ridiculous.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa--to the point of order, please.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

The point of order that Mr. McGuinty was referring to was with regard to the hours of filibustering. I am sharing concerns about Bill C-377, and that's being interpreted as a filibuster.

I had an interesting discussion with the replacements for the NDP yesterday, after Mr. Cullen left. We all stayed until about 10 o'clock, but he left and had a replacement. I asked Mr. Julian how many hours he had filibustered, and Mr. Martin also. I think it was around 14 to 18 hours, something like that. I can't imagine how somebody would talk for 14 to 18 hours. Now, I may have those hours slightly wrong, and if I do, I apologize, but I think that's what was shared with me last night.

It is a tool if somebody wants to use it in the House of Commons. Again, referring to Mr. McGuinty's point of order, I think it might be helpful to provide the history, as the clerk is looking at the history of people making long presentations in the House of Commons, and to see the records on abnormally long speeches.

I feel quite passionate about Bill C-377 and about dealing with the problems with Bill C-377, and I will talk about that during my time, when I have the floor, talking specifically about clause 10. But specifically to Mr. McGuinty's point of order, I think it's important that we have all that enlightening information, and maybe even how long Mr. McGuinty himself has spoken at times. That may be quite enlightening.

Particularly the NDP, I think, have been famous for the amount of hours they've spoken. As for me, I spoke at length--I think it was an hour yesterday, or an hour and a half--but it was nothing compared to the legacy that has been known in this House.

I would ask Madam Bennett--

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa, can I respond to Mr. McGuinty?

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

And so, Chair, that information would be quite enlightening, I think, to show what....

Maybe Madam Bennett is--

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I've never filibustered.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Good for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I don't believe we need to discuss this much further. The clerk has pointed out to me that time allocation, which is what we're talking about, is available to a minister of the crown and basically applies to the House.

In effect, rather than my reading a page here and taking time, basically there is no formal mechanism within this committee that we in fact could use on a private member's bill. If this were a government bill, of course the government, the minister, could do something along the lines of what you're thinking. I think that's the problem you're facing with your point of order. It comes back to, I guess, my original comment, that we have to take care of this ourselves.

I really would like to move on to Mr. Godfrey--

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

I want to thank you, Mr. Chair, for your patience and advice on this.

Again, through you--this is the very last, I promise you--I would like the parliamentary secretary to answer the last question I put to him, which he has refused to answer. Is he taking his instructions directly from the Minister of the Environment, yes or no?

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Warawa, if you don't want to answer that, you certainly don't have to. It's up to you. But however you want to comment, keep it brief, please.