Environment Committee on May 7th, 2008

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chair, I respect the opinion expressed by the member, but the fact is that environmental groups, economists and even the United Nations emissary to the Canadian food program have proposed a moratorium on the production of biofuels for the very reason that this contributes to the rise in food prices. As I said, between 2003 and 2008, production increased from 212 million litres to 1.5 billion litres, and that figure is expected to climb to close to two or three billion dollars.

I understand what Mr. Warawa is saying. There are other options. Biofuel is not limited to corn-based ethanol, but given the timeline set out in Bill C-33, which targets 5% in 2010, and the maturity of the other technologies available, achieving this goal will inevitably require an increase in the production of corn intended for the manufacturing of ethanol. In these conditions, it is obvious that this is currently contributing to the hike in food prices abroad and that this will likely be the case soon here in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Jean, really briefly and then we'll get to Mr. Vellacott.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm trying, but I had problems keeping up with the translation because Mr. Bigras is like me--I speak too fast.

My question is this. Would this not be a suitable topic for another committee, such as international trade, foreign affairs, or agriculture—or CIDA or some other group that could deal with this? I'm curious, because environment is possibly inappropriate.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I think that—

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

That's why I was asking. I still have the chair, Mr. Bigras.

I just don't understand what the purpose of this motion is. Is it international? Because we don't have a food shortage in this country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Bigras, please answer quickly.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chairman, the fact that the motion is being tabled and studied here constitutes a very good reason to debate it, in my opinion. Moreover, if my colleagues feel that they have no right to review an amendment made by the Department of Agriculture to the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, when this falls precisely within the committee's purview, I wonder what the circumstances would be in which we should intervene.

I remind you that this bill tabled by the Minister of Agriculture amends the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. To my knowledge, it is our responsibility to ensure that Quebec and Canada environmental interests are protected.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Vellacott.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

The other thing I need to ask Mr. Bigras is.... I don't understand, in terms of the implications of this, the last part, where it says “not result in an increase in the proportion of Canadian corn production currently used to produce ethanol”. I don't know if this is allowing an opening for others to be.... We import corn in significant amounts for feed and so on in Ontario, I understand. So I don't know if this is inferring, or at least leaving an opening, then, for importing corn for the production of ethanol. You're keeping the same proportions, but you're just bringing it in from another country.

I don't understand the interplay, and I think one might be cutting off their nose to spite their face here if you're actually going to just have it imported from elsewhere to increase ethanol production in the country, but have the corn brought in from elsewhere.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Let's have Mr. Watson jump in here, if you're finished, Mr. Vellacott. But then we'll let Mr. Bigras answer both.

[Maurice Vellacott, Conservative, Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK]

Yes, as long as he remembers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think Mr. Warawa raised an important question about why the Bloc is singling out corn. I think there are some very obvious answers. I think the Bloc has turned its back on corn farmers precisely at a time when they have a chance to make a buck out of the market instead of making it out of a government program.

Mr. Chair, I think the Bloc wants to pick on Ontario specifically because we're a net importer of corn from the United States, which undercuts the price of the corn our farmers grow. We finally get a chance to make some money out of this. Our farmers are looking to plant not only to meet the needs of food but for ethanol production--to do both. This is a great time in Ontario, but the Bloc wants to stick it to Ontario, and I think there's another reason why the Bloc is doing this, Mr. Chair.

I think the member should take his pet peeve to Brazil, where they're destroying rainforests in the stampede to make ethanol. That's where he can make a much greater difference, instead of picking on Ontario and specifically picking on Ontario farmers. This is not the place for this kind of emotion. I understand he may not like it. He can take his little battle somewhere else, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Mr. Bigras.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

First of all, Mr. Chairman, I find Mr. Watson's arrogance inappropriate. If I were you I would have called him to order, and I would have called for respect towards other parliamentarians.

Secondly, the reality is that this production will be subsidized. In fact, the federal government has announced a $2.2 billion contribution over nine years to finance biofuels. The government has clearly chosen to finance corn ethanol and its producers. Sixty per cent to 70% of agricultural production in Quebec is in the animal sector, and these animals must eat corn. By this very fact, the production costs of Quebec's farmers will increase significantly.

I feel that Canada has to live up to what the international community, including the United Nations, is proposing, that is to say a moratorium on corn ethanol and biofuel production. The Americans have decided to increase their biofuel production, and they will soon be self-sufficient. I think that we will have to make strategic decisions.

What we are discussing is sustainable development strategies. If the government is being so honest with us in the opinions that it is putting forward, it should table the strategic environmental assessment that was done within the framework of Bill C-33 rather than resorting to all kinds of arguments that are just nonsense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Are there any other comments?

Mr. Jean.

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I can't help it.

Sorry, Mr. Bigras. With respect, I've seen you as an environmentalist from time to time on this committee, but it sounds as though you are saying out with the possibility of new technology that's going to help the fuel crisis, when we have 33 years left of conventional fuel, and there are all these GHGs going up into the air and affecting the health of Canadians, as long as we have enough foodstock--corn--to make sure that the people in Quebec can have cheap food for their livestock. That's what it sounds like to me. Is that the whole purpose of this? That's why I was asking. I didn't understand it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I hate to--

[Brian Jean, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Athabasca, AB]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but it just seems as though he's gone from one point to another.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

I hate to stop you at this point, but the bells have started, and people know the rules. It's a 15-minute bell. The vote is at 6:30.

Mr. Bigras can reintroduce this motion, and we can carry on at a future date.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

The vote is at 5:30.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Call the vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

There's more debate, Mr. Bigras.

Reintroduce it, and we'll carry on the debate.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

No. In this case, Mr. Chairman, you are completely out in left field. We need a motion for adjournment, I believe.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

There's the bell, Mr. Bigras.

The clerk advises me that we need unanimous consent to continue over the bells, and I don't believe we're going to receive that.