Evidence of meeting #37 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phosphorus.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
No, I am not an expert, although I am absolutely certain that those machines use heat for sterilization. The presence or absence of phosphorus in the soap used with these machines will in no way affect a risk of transmitting pathogenic organisms.
Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
It is a question of heat, as opposed to phosphorus.
President, Conseil régional de l'environnement de la Montérégie
I am from the health sector. I do think there is a need to exercise caution. There is more extensive and more serious control in hospitals and in the health care sector in general.
Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
Exactly.
President, Conseil régional de l'environnement de la Montérégie
Mr. Carignan understands what I am getting at. We do not have the same control over commercial dishwashers. Therefore, an obsolete dishwasher or one that does not work properly is not subject to that kind of monitoring. I just wanted to add that as an aside.
Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
I would like to add something. I do think we need to exercise caution when it comes to commercial institutions, and particularly hospitals, but I do not believe phosphorus has much impact. It is really a question of temperature and sterilizing dishes and whatever else is put in these dishwashers.
Liberal
Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
Yes.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Mr. Marois and Mr. Carignan, you say that you are more concerned with the machines used in hospitals or other institutions but, at the same time, you are not saying that machines used in these institutions always work properly. What concerns you is that more people may be affected in a hospital, where the potential for infections is more of a concern; is that right?
Full Professor, Department of Biological Sciences, University of Montréal, As an Individual
I believe there needs to be more in-depth study of this. I am not an expert, but I suspect that it is simply a question of how hot the water is during the wash cycle.
President, Conseil régional de l'environnement de la Montérégie
The other issue has to do with the scale of proliferation. Proliferation is different in a hospital as opposed to a restaurant setting, and we do have to ensure that the proper controls are in place. There is a greater problem with pathogens in a hotel or a hospital than there is in a private residence. Mr. Carignan pointed out earlier that it is essential to ensure that pathogens are destroyed in the hospital setting.
I agree with Mr. Carignan. It is very likely that in both hotels and the restaurant industry in general, the systems used ensure that, because the water is so hot, pathogens are destroyed. The problem, when it comes to the hotel industry and restaurants, is that there is economic competition, and you need to ensure that the machinery is working properly. In a hospital setting, they cannot afford to ignore that. Therefore, we have the assurance that there will be proper control.
As regards the commercial sector, I am more cautious. I am not saying that people exercise less caution, but nor am I saying that there is the proper framework in place to ensure that this kind of caution is exercised.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
I'm going to go to Mr. Vellacott. We have a couple of minutes left.
Then, Ms. Jelley, I believe you wanted to answer that as well.
Could you ask your question, Mr. Vellacott?
Conservative
Maurice Vellacott Conservative Saskatoon—Wanuskewin, SK
I had a question directly, mainly, to Giorgio at this point.
You mentioned a petition that 7,000 people had signed, which was available to all parties, I gather. You mentioned that you had some role or influence in the creation of Bill C-469. I would just ask along those lines, then--because it's good when we get input from across the country, from different people and players, and so on--what kind of direct involvement you had in the drafting of this particular bill. In what fashion were you consulted?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
Mr. Vecco, can you answer very briefly? The bells are going now, so we need to leave here pretty quickly.
Coordinator, COMGA (Gatineau River Watershed Committee)
I think there was a misunderstanding because of the way I expressed myself. What I wanted to say is that we had a petition, and we presented the petition. That's the truth, but we cannot assume for that.... The Bloc Québécois took this initiative. There were already other initiatives going on; it was just what we can consider to be a good coincidence, but I would not be so proud as to say..... Of course, the Bloc also took that into consideration and invited me to this meeting.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Mills
Thank you, Mr. Vellacott.
I want to thank the witnesses.
Mr. Carignan, I'm not sure I want to get into a debate with you or not, but thank you very much for being on. Thank you to the other witnesses for being here.
The meeting is adjourned.