Evidence of meeting #5 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Is a binding target a hard target, that is to say, an absolute reduction as opposed to an intensity target?
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Absolute. Absolute reductions, and there will be different national circumstances in terms of how people choose to deal with that, even within Canada. Alberta has an industrial regulatory regime. Ontario is looking at one big action to close coal-fired plants. So different approaches will take place in different jurisdictions, but we believe in absolute reduction.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
So may I summarize the strange places in which we find ourselves. You're going to use Canada's domestic example of our plan, which is based on intensity targets, not hard targets, not absolute targets, to urge on the world that they, the rest of the world, get on with hard, absolute, binding targets that lead to real reductions. How can you use the domestic example, which is not based on hard targets and absolute reductions and absolute targets? It's not an absolute target. How can you possibly preach to the others when we're not doing it ourselves? I don't see what one does with the other.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I said in the House of Commons maybe 200 or 300 times that in this country we have a target of 20% absolute reduction in greenhouse gases.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
How does that work with what you're imposing in the regulations on industry, which are based on intensity targets?
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
On the regulations, which are one part of the plan, we have ambitious intensity-based targets that break the back of rising emissions. I'm in my first term in the House of Commons. I have read Hansard. In the past where you've extolled the virtues of intensity-based targets, you personally have said that intensity-based targets...and Mr. Dion did--
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
Thank you. I know what I've said.
Now let me find out something else from you. You have quoted as an example of success the Montreal Protocol on ozone reduction, and we would agree it's been a success. But is it not true, Minister, that all countries of the world were required to take on targets at the same time, yes or no?
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Originally, I think some 30-odd countries were part of the protocol. What it does--
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
If you give me a fair opportunity to respond to the question you asked, I'd be very pleased to. You asked me two questions, and I like to answer the second question.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
John Godfrey Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I will ask you the second question, and you can answer both.
Isn't it true that developed countries took on targets first, and only years later were developing countries required to tackle the problem? Is that true or not true? Because you find it's a successful formula.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
What it did, instead of a two-tier strategy where the developed world is now 10 years ahead of those developing economies.... Plus there's what I would call, for lack of a better term, an annex that speaks to a number of different national circumstances country by country. What it does is require these harmful emissions, many of them potent greenhouse gases as well, to be reduced, and there's a different timetable for developing countries, which speaks to the common but differentiated requirements on various countries in the world, plus a whole annex of exceptions for this industry and this country, etc.
4:40 p.m.
An hon. member
[Inaudible--Editor]
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
The questions are supposed to be from Mr. Godfrey now.
Mr. McGuinty, and I'm going to let.... I'm sorry.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
