Evidence of meeting #5 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Because, Minister, we checked. We actually checked with Mr. Steiner. We wrote to Mr. Steiner, and we got a reply.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Let me read to you what Mr. Steiner's office actually said in his reply.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
Minister, this is not a debate. As I indicated at the beginning, you had your half hour. This is the members' time, as you know, and we'll ask you to wait for them to ask questions before you respond.
November 29th, 2007 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Geoff Regan
Mr. Warawa, please state the nature of the point of order you wish to raise.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC
Chair, you have to give the witness an opportunity to speak. To cut him off after he's been asked a question is inappropriate.
4 p.m.
Liberal
4 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Well, we asked Mr. Steiner's office, Minister. This is what Mr. Steiner's office, his chief spokesperson for UNEP worldwide, said in reply. Let me read it to you on the record. He says,
“We have looked at the quote used in Hansard and attributed to Mr. Steiner. We believe it is a quote made by Mr. Steiner in response to the outcome in Montreal in September in respect to the accelerated freeze and phase-out of HCFCs, chemicals that damage the ozone layer but are increasingly recognized as contributing to global warming.”
He goes on to say, “On the wider issue of climate change, Mr. Steiner has been on the record expressing concern about Canada's difficulties in achieving its targets under the UN climate convention's Kyoto Protocol and has urged them to show far greater leadership here. Late last year, 2006, Mr. Steiner also indicated in an interview to Canadian Press that he believed Canada outside Kyoto could harm Canadian business as it would be outside the international carbon markets established under Kyoto.”
Is Mr. Steiner's office wrong, Minister?
4 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
I have a letter here, and I'm happy to table it with the committee. It was received in my office in the House of Commons on July 4, 2007. It was in response to a letter that I sent Mr. Steiner with a full copy of our Turning the Corner plan. It reads:
Your Excellency,
Thank you for sending me information on the Canadian Government's new regulatory framework for air emissions.
That was the document that we released in April. We sent them a full copy of it. I don't have it from his spokesman, but it's in his hand right there, his signature. I'm very happy to quote it.
I hope you'll apologize to me, as you asked me to apologize to Mr. Gore, because you got his spokesman whereas I got it from the man himself, with his signature right there.
4 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
This is not as you said, sir. It is not in response to the work that we did together in September. This is several months before that. I'll table that with the committee, if I may.
4 p.m.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Achim Steiner is right, right there. It's exactly 100%, as I said it was.
4 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Well, we'll take that at face value, Minister.
Let's take a look--
4 p.m.
Liberal
David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON
Let's move on, Minister, to another quote you used. You said that in the past Canada preached to the world and did nothing. So you say.
Let's take a look at where your domestic plan actually is in Canada with respect to it being presented in Bali. You're going to go to Bali and say that this plan is meeting with all kinds of Canadian success.
Well, the Pembina Institute says you have little chance of meeting your target: “...numerous loopholes and gaps undermine the credibility of the government's target for 2020”.
The World Wildlife Fund and the Tyndale Centre say: “Analysis indicates the government has set reduction targets which are well below what is achievable. Already they are well below what the industry already plans to do.”
The C.D. Howe Institute does work regularly for your party: “...overall emissions in Canada are unlikely to fall below current levels. The government is likely to miss its 2020 emissions target by almost 200 megatonnes.” Greenhouse gases will rise until 2050, says the C.D. Howe Institute.
The National Energy Board, your own agency, your federal agency, says that “the government's plan is insufficient to meet the targets that it sets. In fact, under three of the four scenarios laid out by the Board, greenhouse gas emissions will continue to rise...”.
Your National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy, reporting directly to you, says that in virtually every part of the government's plan on climate change, the government has either overestimated the reductions of greenhouse gases or did not provide enough evidence to perform a proper analysis.
Let's go on. Jeff Rubin, with the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce, two days ago said that your energy intensity targets are effectively incapable of limiting future growth in either energy demand growth or carbon emissions.
Deutsche Bank, Germany's top commercial bank, said, “Under current policies, we would expect Canada's industrial greenhouse gas emissions to continue rising over 2006-20”.
Add to that, Minister, the United Nations Development Programme's disciplining of Canada two days ago in a global report, singling out Canada while the Prime Minister was talking about aspirational targets to Ugandans who make $300 a year. The UNDP says industrialized countries have to lead the world and take the first steps, not put a revolver to the head of Chinese and Indian and other officials.
Friends of the Earth are now launching their second lawsuit against you, Minister, the first because you didn't meet the Kyoto Protocol Implementation Act requirements by August 2007 to file a plan, the second lawsuit now because you haven't published draft regulations by October 20. Nothing is there.
Finally, we have Professor Weaver. You remember Professor Weaver. You quoted him in Paris when you were looking for your made-in-Canada plan. You said he was a wonderful model for the country, right? Well, this is what he said a week or two weeks ago:
Harper stands up and waffles on about trying to call for 50% emissions reductions. “Where on earth is he getting those numbers from”, Weaver asked. They're certainly not coming from Canadian scientists. Maybe it's coming from a Ouija board or something
But nobody knows where it's coming from, Minister.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal