Environment Committee on Nov. 29th, 2007

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We have looked through the estimates, and your department spends more than most other departments on advertising.

In looking at your presentation today, I'm wondering if you have the same enthusiasm you have for partisan politics and showmanship in actually curbing greenhouse gas emissions in Canada, because, sir, you have not tabled the regulation. Emissions continue to go up in this country and you continue to subsidize industries like the northern Alberta tar sands. That's beyond all comprehension and is completely hypocritical.

I don't understand why you would suggest Canada has credibility, if we take this one example alone of a portion of our economy with some of the highest greenhouse gas emissions of any sector of the economy, and which your government continues to subsidize, like the previous government. Why would that lend credibility to Canada's position?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We're eliminating those subsidies, and you voted to keep them in the House of Commons.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

When are those being eliminated?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's all laid out in this year's budget, and you voted against it.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

It's 2012. That's a great deal of urgency?

The question I have is about your talk about working, and giving the illusion that—

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'd appreciate the comments from my colleagues later.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

And you present yourself as some sort of non-partisan do-gooder—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

You've talked about working with all these—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Geoff Regan]

Mr. Cullen, I'm sorry, I will allow the minister to answer in a moment, once the question is finished.

You'll have to wait, Mr. Warawa.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

There's the question of validation, about somebody who's been able to come forward as a third party and validate your actual plan on the table. Who do you recognize as that validator?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I think it would probably be more fulsome to look at it once all the meat has been put on the bone in terms of the specifics of a carbon market, the specifics of an offset system, the specifics of what we're working hard on with industry and environmental groups.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Do you know of a carbon market that exists anywhere in the world with an intensity regime?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Do you want to answer that?

[Ian Shugart]

The European carbon market is based on hard caps. But the government's plan is calculated on the basis of intensity and translates into what will be legally mandated absolute reductions.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

So the answer is no, there is no carbon market that functions, or none proposed anywhere in the world, using intensity as its limit.

I'm confused as to why you would propose a mechanism and give it a whole bunch of credit in your plan for achieving the results that Canadians need, but which doesn't exist anywhere in the world, because it can't function—and industry would tell you that if you asked them. Why then would you propose this as a credible plan going into international negotiations, when our partners on the international and global scene know it to be a falsehood? I don't know why you would suggest it is a credible tool.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I look around the world and see that greenhouse gas emissions are skyrocketing in most countries. They've gone up substantially in the developed and the developing world. We're working to reduce them. Yes, we're looking at some different approaches here in Canada. I think we were very clear that we would come forward with a made-in-Canada approach to reducing emissions here—in both the industrial and non-industrial sectors.

I appreciate that you disagree with those, and you're free to do so.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Canada is still in default and owes the United Nations $1.5 million. Is that correct?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Pardon me?

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Has Canada paid its $1.5 million bill to the United Nations?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

For the clean development mechanism? No, but we will.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We will? This has been pointed out for almost two years now. What's the delay?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I don't know about two years now—

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Absolutely. Your predecessor had the same bill.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm supportive of clean development mechanisms. We're going to be paying.