Evidence of meeting #6 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ian Shugart  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment
Michael Horgan  Deputy Minister, Department of the Environment
Basia Ruta  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Department of the Environment
Cynthia Wright  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Stewardship Branch, Department of the Environment
Michael Martin  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of the Environment
John Carey  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Technology Branch, Department of the Environment

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

I would like begin this meeting of the environment committee and welcome the environment minister, Mr. Baird. Welcome to the committee. I know many of the members have been looking forward to your visit here to talk about the estimates.

Just so all members understand, the first hour will deal with the minister and the questions you have around the estimates. The next three quarters of an hour will be with the officials, to probe more deeply with them. The last 15 minutes will be for other business.

We'll begin with the minister. He has one hour with us; he will leave at 4:30 p.m. We'll then go to the officials for three quarters of an hour and then future business in the last 15 minutes.

Mr. Minister, welcome.

December 4th, 2007 / 3:30 p.m.

Ottawa West—Nepean Ontario

Conservative

John Baird ConservativeMinister of the Environment

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Let me first welcome you back. We're glad to have you back. Your vice-chair did a good job when you were gone, you should know. We're keeping notes.

I also want to acknowledge my friend from Hamilton Centre who's here. In the House of Commons I made a mistake I'd like to correct. I spoke of how strong and hard the members for Burlington and Ancaster--Dundas--Flamborough--Westdale had worked on Randle Reef. The member for Hamilton Centre worked very hard on that too, so I should acknowledge his good contribution in helping clean up Randle Reef in Hamilton.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you, but I'm still going to go after you.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Let me begin today by saying that as Minister of the Environment, I'm very proud of the high priority Canadians are placing on the environment. Canadians understand the value of our environment and they're getting involved more and more in the protection of our environment, and that's great news for everyone.

There is a growing understanding today that the links between our environment and our economy are absolutely inseparable. How we manage and care for our environment directly impacts the legacy we leave for the next generation. Our government understands this, and we are not only listening attentively to Canadians, we're taking real action to get real results for Canadians and for our environment.

In Budgets 2006 and 2007, our government announced investments of more than $9 billion in funding for priorities and initiatives related to environmental initiatives that will be implemented over a span of several years. Of this funding, close to $1 billion will flow to Environment Canada in the next five years to deliver on environmental initiatives.

This government has taken action on environmental priorities, actions that show beyond words and rhetoric that we are serious about protecting and improving our environment. Our government not only gets it, but we're showing the world that Canada is serious about reducing our emissions.

After 13 years of rising emissions, our government has put forward a plan, our “Turning the Corner” plan, which demonstrates real action, a commitment that goes beyond signing on the dotted line. For the first time in Canada's history, we've enlisted industry to take action and to implement mandatory, not voluntary, targets to reduce both greenhouse gases and air pollution. We are leading our country down a new path, and climate change has not been the only priority we're delivering on. We're also focusing on priorities like clean water, environmental protection, and something that's very important to me, conservation. We've been working to make sure that our natural legacy and ecosystems are conserved and that our wildlife and migratory birds are protected. Our government committed $22 million in Budget 2007 to hire more environmental enforcement officers. Our commitment will ensure improved accountability in environmental enforcement: polluters will pay.

We are also working to ensure the safety of Canadians through our weather services and our storm warning systems. Protecting Canada's natural heritage has also been a priority, and we have targeted part of the budget funding toward supporting a massive natural areas conservation program, expanding protected areas in the Northwest Territories, and implementing the Species at Risk Act.

Let me give you a few examples of some of the important work we're doing at Environment Canada to protect wildlife. Environment Canada is doing research on the ecology of the polar bear as well as negotiating a conservation agreement among Canada, Nunavut, and Greenland.

As you may know, we expect the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada to report on the status of the polar bear population. We've engaged 18 of the top scientists from academia, government, and non-government groups across Canada to determine the critical habitat of the caribou of the boreal forest. This will not only help the caribou population but contribute to the biodiversity of the boreal forest in our great country.

We've completed a recovery strategy for two important seabirds, the pink-footed shearwater and the short-tailed albatross. And as my colleague, the member for Langley, recently announced, we will be taking action to protect the Scott Islands in British Columbia, which will further help these species.

We're also doing important research on another migratory seabird, the marbled merlet, a species that resides in the Great Bear rainforest, which this government contributed $30 million to help protect. We're hopeful that this action will result in a downgrading of its status in the Species at Risk Act.

These are just a few examples of the excellent work done by the men and women of Environment Canada who are dedicated to protecting some of the most vulnerable species. Canada is fortunate to be served by such high-quality public servants who are truly dedicated to a noble cause.

Mr. Chair, our government promised to focus its budget on priority setting, and as you can see, we are remaining true to our word. Yet even with our numerous investments and environmental priorities, Environment Canada has been facing challenges to deliver ongoing programs and services to Canadians, notwithstanding the substantial investment being made by this government for the environment.

This does not mean that the department has grown in each and every area. When we look at the current departmental budget and supplementary estimates, we must recognize that we are only partway through the fiscal year. What we are looking at right now is not the total picture. The department's budget may still change as a result of funding from supplementary estimates later this fiscal year.

Right now Environment Canada's budget for this fiscal year stands at $842 million. The supplementary estimates currently before the House of Commons include another $290 million, which, if passed, will increase the department's budget to over $1 billion.

It must be noted, however, that what we see in the present supplementary estimates is in large part funding that was associated with the new programs being transferred to Environment Canada from another department.

The largest increase relates to the transfer of the Toronto waterfront revitalization initiative to Environment Canada, a budget item that's previously been shown in Treasury Board Secretariat's estimates. The fact is it will include funding from supplementary estimates (A) without the funding for the newly transferred functions. The overall budget for the department will increase this year by approximately $55 million.

Mr. Chair, what needs to be understood is that the new funding coming to the department is specifically targeted towards delivering on the government's environmental priorities. This funding does not add to the department's bottom line. Therefore, core funding remains constrained.

Even as the department is receiving new money, it is not allocated to legacy and existing programs and services in all cases. There are a number of reasons for the financial pressures on core funding at Environment Canada.

First of all, the 2005 expenditure review undertaken by the previous government resulted in a cut of about $22 million, which is no longer available to the Department of the Environment year over year. The fact is that was made and approved by one of my predecessors in that year.

In fact, Environment Canada is feeling the effects of another spending restraint measure dating back to 2003, again under the previous government. This is a reality that we have inherited and we are doing our best to deal with.

In addition, because of the cuts made by the previous government, Environment Canada's budget has been limited by the amount of funding available for the department to carry forward into the next fiscal year. In previous years this amount totalled $25 million to $35 million; however, it went down to as little as $13 million.

The budgetary situation has further been compounded by new requirements, which are being addressed internally. The department has had to enhance its informatics operations required to provide the capacity and security in support of our science-based programs. The department moved forward towards audited financial statements, requiring additional investments to meet this requirement.

The department also underwent a significant reorganization less than two years ago. This reorganization aimed to move the department towards a new results-based structure to ensure that the highest priorities are being addressed. This came with financial impacts.

The transformation implemented in April 2006 has had an impact on the department.

Collectively, all of this has added to a tight but manageable financial situation. Prudent management dictates that a constant review of current operations is required, making sure that limited resources are managed efficiently and that funds for lower priorities are moved into higher ones.

Given that my timeline is coming to an end, I'll move to the conclusion.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

You're at seven minutes, 36 seconds.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Is that what I have left?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

We'd like you to keep to 10 to 12 minutes if you can.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Mr. Chair, our government cares deeply about the state of the environment and this country's ability to monitor, manage, and protect our precious natural treasures. We are doing what it takes to ensure priority areas are addressed and cared for as they should be, and despite the legacy we have inherited, with careful planning, our government has continued to deliver on the most comprehensive environmental agenda that Canadians have ever seen. Most importantly, despite everything, the department is working tirelessly and it shows.

I believe we've made a tremendous amount of progress in a very short period of time. In the last two years our government has introduced a number of important initiatives, such as the launch of a national pilot of the air quality health index, the introduction of our “Turning the Corner” action plan, and the introduction of Canada's trust fund for clean air and climate change.

Canada has also become a member of the international Coalition Against Wildlife Trafficking to address the illegal trade of plants and animals. We have invested in a national campaign to buy and to preserve ecologically significant land across southern Canada, working with the Nature Conservancy of Canada.

Our government is bolstering the protection of our water and land to toughen environmental enforcement that will make polluters accountable, hiring another 106 environmental enforcement officers.

In short, the story is simple. Department officials have had to work extra hard to ensure that every financial decision is carefully considered for the greatest benefit of our environment.

Thank you for the opportunity to be with you.

I did want to address one issue that came up at the last committee hearing. Mr. Chair, you weren't here, so I will read a quote.

The member for Ottawa South suggested that I had misquoted the former Vice-President of the United States, and I checked the record, and not only did I not make any characterization of the quote, but I delivered the quote exactly as he said it. And, Mr. Speaker, I know you're a sports fan. Sometimes you say when there's a doubt, you go to the videotape. So we can go to the videotape and it will show that according to Hansard, it will match up with the quote Mr. Gore gave.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Thank you. Mr. Minister.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

And you have it coming up here.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

You were actually under 10 minutes, so I congratulate you on that.

Are you going to show us the video?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I'm going to show a video. It's just that I know there were two allegations made that I had misled the House of Commons. I had given a letter that counteracted the second one, but we have a video clip, which we're ensuring--

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Quickly.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

We'll get it on. He'll continue to try. Maybe I can convince one of the members to...because I want to always be very clear.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

We'll be anxious to get it on.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

Just the facts.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

Okay.

Anyway, I would like to--

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

There will be another corresponding opportunity for an apology.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

I would like to first really welcome Professor Toner from the School of Public Policy and Administration at the University of Carleton. He has brought a number of students who work at Environment Canada studying public policy. Perhaps they could just stand up and be recognized.

Welcome.

3:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bob Mills

These people have a very definite interest in the environment and how this committee operates.

We will begin with Mr. McGuinty.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, it's good to see you again. Minister, I want to pick up on the line of questioning put by the leader of the opposition to the Prime Minister just a half an hour ago. There was a report that was commissioned by Natural Resources Canada called From Impacts to Adaptation: Canada in a Changing Climate 2007. Can you please tell this committee whether you can release that report, for example, today?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

I have not seen the report. I only learned of it this morning.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

David McGuinty Liberal Ottawa South, ON

Do you know what it cost?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON

No idea. It was a report committed by another department, the Department of Natural Resources, and I encourage you to put that question to the Minister of Natural Resources.