Environment Committee on Dec. 4th, 2007

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Minister, the salary budget for staff at Canadian Wildlife also has increased, is that correct?

[Cynthia Wright]

Yes, the budget for CWS in the salary budget, with the approval of the supplementary (A) amount, will be $35.9 million, which is the largest it's ever been. Just to give you an idea, five years ago it was $23.4 million.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

So doing the math here, we've seen spending for Canadian Wildlife increasing, Minister, you said from $75 million to $84.5 million, and that was a 13% increase. We've seen funding to outside stakeholders to take action on species at risk increased by 46%, which is really good news. Also, the staff budget at Canadian Wildlife has increased by $7.5 million, a 24% increase.

The work at Canadian Wildlife is very important. I did a little research. Their work includes developing a recovery strategy for species at risk, like the caribou recovery strategy. It includes work on migratory bird regulations, on destroying nests. It includes supporting bird surveys in priority areas such as birds oiled at sea and the red knot wild bird influenza survey. It includes measuring toxic substances in species, and it includes management of protected areas, including the Portobello Creek national wildlife area in New Brunswick and Last Mountain Lake national wildlife area in Saskatchewan, and on and on. It's been very involved and very successful.

Minister, you came out to British Columbia, I think it was about a year ago now, and announced the Great Bear rainforest...which I was very happy about because it was an opportunity that the previous government passed on, and talked about and thought about. But it was you, Minister, who came out to British Columbia and made that announcement. You had a long record of protecting very fragile environmental areas in Canada, and you've accomplished an amazing amount in this last year.

My question to you is, why would the NDP vote against protecting the Great Bear rainforest?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

This was something some groups I met with pointed to, both the Great Bear rainforest and the Nahanni National Park reserve, that if you wanted to show you were serious about the environment, here would be two quick actions you could take, and we delivered on both.

Why I'm so big on it is not just the great conservation move, but it's $30 million from the federal government. We're leveraging $30 million from the province that's been sitting there for two years, and they raised $60 million, much of it from the United States. People felt so strongly and passionately about protecting this great area of our country that they were putting up their own money.

I'm very big on leveraging additional resources, and that's why in a plan with the Nature Conservancy of Canada we put up $220 million. They have to match that. We made an announcement in Essex recently where $1.4 million is leveraging almost $7 million, between the conservation authority, the local community, the province, and the federal government. So we're able to go a lot farther a lot faster, which is a good use of dollars.

The exciting thing about conservation is, people are passionate about it in this country and they're prepared to make charitable contributions in this regard. We saw some of the tax changes that were made by the Minister of Finance, which have helped assist this. We want to encourage more of this for people to understand that they have a stake in our environment and that government has an important role to provide leadership. But we've got to see real action on the ground from Canadians, and we're seeing it.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I believe I have a few minutes left. I'd like to give Mr. Watson an opportunity to ask a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Very briefly, Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The question of fiscal management is always important, ensuring you have the adequate resource levels to get the priorities you want efficiently.

You mentioned a cut at Environment Canada caused you some problems in funding, that one being attributable to the now leader of the opposition when he was minister in 2005. What effects did those cuts have on your department?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It put the department in a squeeze. I understand difficult decisions have to be made from time to time--that's the case in every government--but if you're going to cut the budget, you should implement the budget cut and not just slough it off on someone else, and that's what I felt was done here. That caused me great concern.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Separating fact from fiction, there was a rumour in the media--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That makes it a phantom. It's taken from the department, and then the good people in the department are left to juggle the balls and try to deal with it, and they did that successfully for two or three years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

One final question, Mr. Watson.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you.

There was a recent rumour in the media about a contract for $60,000 to improve morale. Can you set the record straight on that? Is that true?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

One television network keeps reporting this, and in fact there was never any money--$60,000--spent on morale boosting. There was $60,000 spent on values and ethics in the public service, which is a big priority for this government, a big priority for leaders within the public service. I think it was money well spent. I think it was shameful that this misrepresentation tried to mischaracterize the judgment of people in the department and me.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Thank you, Mr. Watson.

I'll now go to Mr. Godfrey. Could you take about three minutes, and then we'll end this session?

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'd just like to be clear about the famous Al Gore situation. You're quoting him on February 6, 2007, but that's actually before you released your climate change plan on April 26, 2007. Wasn't that when you issued the “Turning the Corner” climate strategy?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I made no reference to the strategy. I did not characterize the quote. I just delivered the quote as it was written. If you read Hansard--and I've provided a copy for you there--the Liberal member had quoted Goldman Sachs. I said—

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Well, I guess the question is how you explain the fact, then, that on February 12, following your quoting of him, Al Gore says, “I understand that last week Canada's minister of the environment, John Baird, mischaracterized comments I made last summer”--that is to say, the summer of 2006--“as praise for the...government's actions on global warming”. He was saying what he hoped you would do would be in fact to carry on the good work of the previous government.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I expect some Liberal researchers were in touch with the former Vice-President's office on this. I'm not taking issue with what Mr. Gore said later. It was said here at committee last week that I misquoted the man. It is factually incorrect. It was said last week that I misquoted Achim Steiner—factually incorrect. If a member is going to come and lie to this committee, I'm going to call him to task.

There's a pattern here with this family. One of my cabinet colleagues had to sue his brother for lying, and hundreds of thousands of dollars of legal expenses later, he finally apologized.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm not here to discuss families, Mr. Baird. I just want to point out the importance of putting quotations in context, in their time.

I do have a quick question for you.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

My quick question is--

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Mills]

Order.

[John Godfrey, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Look, by training, I'm a historian and a journalist, and all I ask is that quotations be given in their context.

The question I really want to ask you is, showing the concern you have in recent times for issues concerning climate change, why have you actually cut funding to or ceased funding with new money two organizations, the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences—which, at a time when we need to know more about these things, I would have thought deserved more funding—and the Canadian Climate Impacts and Adaptation Research Network, which lost its funding in June 2006 and then was closed for good on June 30, 2007?

As we're trying to understand climate impacts and climate science, why have you cut funding to science?