Evidence of meeting #17 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was shipping.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
I agree, Mr. Chair, with Mr. Bigras' comments. I'll move on.
I'd like to ask Mr. Giaschi about the UNCLOS situation. I will start with the Canada Shipping Act.
Are you aware of any difficulties that have arisen in relation to offences under the Canada Shipping Act under the UNCLOS regime?
As an Individual
No, but I don't know whether the issue has ever been raised under the Canada Shipping Act.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
In fact, you're not aware of any prison sentences for foreign vessels that have been imposed under the Canada Shipping Act, are you?
As an Individual
I'm not aware of any prison sentences that have ever been imposed under the Canada Shipping Act.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Are you aware that it's prosecution policy not to request prison sentences under the Canada Shipping Act where to do so would violate UNCLOS?
As an Individual
It may be policy, but that doesn't address the conflicting legislation.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Well, in fact, if there is a policy that prosecutors are directed not to seek sentences that would contravene UNCLOS under the Canada Shipping Act, that seems to have worked, hasn't it?
As an Individual
Has it worked? Perhaps. But as I say, I don't think there has ever been any imprisonment under the Canada Shipping Act. Are you saying that if this bill is passed, we're going to have the same policy? That's kind of the problem, I guess, in that we don't know whether that will be a policy in that way and that it will be enforced.
Conservative
As an Individual
Well, that might be an answer, but it's kind of an odd way to go about it. Why pass a piece of legislation that you know you can't...? You're going to pass a policy that says you're not going to enforce it.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
No. The answer is that the legislation applies to all shipping, whereas UNCLOS applies only to foreign shipping, and consequently the prosecutorial policy will deal with the foreign shipping. I'm glad that will satisfy that point, and I'd like to--
As an Individual
Normally that's done by way of wording in the legislation that defines “foreign vessel” or whatever. That's the way it's done in--
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Can you point to that provision in the Canada Shipping Act for me, then?
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
The one that addresses it in the manner that you just suggested it's normally addressed in.
As an Individual
We know. We've already established that's not the way it's done in the Canada Shipping Act. That doesn't mean they did it right in the Canada Shipping Act.
Conservative
As an Individual
Clearly, they did it wrong, because they had to correct it by implementing a policy.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
No, perhaps it means that's the way it's normally done, as it is in the Canada Shipping Act.
As an Individual
Well, normal.... You have one act where what really happened is that they overlooked the problem and then they implemented the policy.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
If I could go back to your point regarding the Marine Liability Act, as I understand it, you're concerned that some of the provisions in Bill C-16 regarding compensation or cleanup orders may conflict with international conventions. Is that a correct statement of your concern?
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Our time is up. We may have time for a shorter third round of, I don't know, three minutes, but obviously it's up to the committee. What about three-minute rounds, and three minutes per party, of course? Is that good?
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Let's do four minutes, but that takes us right to the end.
Mr. McGuinty.