Evidence of meeting #26 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was aquifers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

James Bruce  Environmental Consultant, Climate and Water, As an Individual
Mark Corey  Assistant Deputy Minister, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources
David Boerner  Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources
Alfonso Rivera  Manager, Groundwater Mapping Program, Environment, Safety and Geographic Foundations Programs, Department of Natural Resources

10 a.m.

Mark Corey Assistant Deputy Minister, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As you mentioned, my name is Mark Corey and I am assistant deputy minister, Earth Sciences Sector at the Department of Natural Resources. I am accompanied by Mr. David Boerner, director general of the Geological Survey of Canada, and Mr. Alfonso Rivera, who is an expert and program manager of our Ground Water Program.

I'm going to just give you a brief overview, and then David has a deck that he can take you through.

Our focus really is on water as it moves underground in Canada, and particularly larger-scale aquifers. We'd like to give you a brief overview of the NRCan groundwater geoscience program to talk about the context in which we work.

To start off, we believe groundwater is a critical resource. That's our starting point. We understand groundwater. When water moves underground, actually, it's really the geologists who understand it. So that's what we at the Geological Survey do. We study water as it moves underground.

In Canada we've identified 30 major national aquifers. There are a lot of other smaller ones, but those are the critical ones. We've done what we would call a reconnaissance preliminary assessment of all of those aquifers. Now we're doing a much more in-depth, detailed analysis of each one. We've completed the in-depth analysis on 12 of those 30, and we're accelerating the work on the rest.

Just to give you an idea, we were spending about $3 million a year. We've now accelerated that by an internal reallocation of resources and we're spending about $3.9 million a year.

Our goal is to have a comprehensive and consistent evidence base across Canada of how these aquifers work and behave under different conditions and scenarios. We work very closely with the provinces and territories and with all the other provincial actors and academia. It really is a shared responsibility. One of our principal roles is national overview and standards for this.

I would like to introduce you to Mr. David Boerner, who will be making the presentation. First, he will talk to you about groundwater in Canada and then he will give you an overview of our work, particularly in Alberta.

10 a.m.

Dr. David Boerner Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources

So you have a deck in front of you. Slide 2 actually shows what we are going to talk about quickly. It is an overview of what we know about aquifers in Canada, the key aquifers, the large ones. As Mark said, we have identified 30 that we're studying in great detail, but there are literally hundreds of aquifers in Canada. We'll focus on the regional picture.

We'll talk briefly about what we need to add to our understanding to achieve this goal of sustainable management and sustainable use of groundwater resources, and then give you a snapshot of what the groundwater studies are that we've been doing, which are pertinent to the Alberta situation. Several of the questions you've already raised. I hope we'll come back to that particular topic.

Slide 3 shows the graph of Canada. It shows the map of Canada with key hydrogeological regions in Canada. Precipitation patterns and geography control some of that. Marked on there are a bunch of circles that show the generalized location of the 30 aquifers we've identified as key.

All 30 of these aquifers have had a preliminary assessment where we've looked at whatever existing data there is about the aquifers and we've tried to assess what we can tell about those aquifer systems. This data, of course, is a bit spotty. It was collected by different people in different times and different eras, but it does give us a preliminary sense of where the aquifers are, how they work, and what the geology is.

We're systematically going through these trying to do a much more complete assessment. I'll show you a summary of a couple of pages of what is in that more complete assessment, but the ones we have completed on here are marked in green. The ones we have yet to do are still a white circle.

Twelve have been assessed in greater detail, and we're trying to understand the groundwater availability, the dynamics of the aquifer; as you've already heard, water is constantly in motion and the real challenge of some of these aquifers is understanding those dynamics—it's not so much just locating where they are—and the potential vulnerabilities of those aquifers to contamination or disturbance or overuse.

As Mark said, we are accelerating our efforts to do this. We had thought we would try to finish these by 2030 with the resources we had. We've now taken five years off that schedule by allocating more resources to this, so we're taking steps to try to move faster because we certainly recognize how important this is to Canadians. About 10 million Canadians depend on groundwater as the potable water supply.

Slide 4 shows what kind of information we can expect from existing aquifers in this preliminary assessment that we've already done of all 30. We know something about the basic geological setting. We know something about the depth and location. This is an interesting issue. A lot of people think aquifers are like underground lakes or underground rivers. They are not. They are probably more akin to something like sponges, where water is distributed everywhere inside them. It is sometimes a real challenge to ask where the boundaries of these things are and where the water is contained.

The other thing about aquifers that people don't appreciate is the time that water takes to move through them. It can range from tens of years to hundreds of years, even thousands of years. So if you cause a disturbance in one part of an aquifer, it may be a long time before you have any knowledge of it occurring someplace else in the aquifer. When you ask how long it takes to study one of these things, if the water movement is hundreds of years, it is a real challenge to figure out what the aquifer is doing in just a couple of years of study.

We also know something about withdrawal rates, because most of the information we have about existing aquifers comes from existing water wells. These were drilled by individuals, often, or corporations, or by different companies. They don't have consistent records or always complete records, but we do have some information about what is happening.

We know, in many cases, the basic water chemistry. Actually, I think we can say that Canada is quite fortunate that the water quality of groundwater is, for the most part, excellent in many places.

We know something about the probable recharge and discharge areas. So we know how water gets into the aquifers in a general sense and we know something about how it comes out.

But that's about it. That's an overview summary.

This is a preliminary assessment, so there's quite a bit known. If you look at slide 5, though, what we really want to do is try to understand how the aquifer functions. This is a whole different question. We need to be a lot more systematic about understanding the dimensions of the aquifer, where the water is, how it's moving, and what the particular draws on the water might be from different places where people are withdrawing it.

Here is a list--I'm not going to go through it--that shows, in comparison to previous lists, that much more comprehensive data is needed. One of the problems that we've certainly had in Canada is that the history of studying groundwater has been scattered among a whole bunch of jurisdictions. People do things differently in different places, and one of the activities we're certainly going to take is to try to consolidate and coordinate some of that so we have much more consistent and comprehensive information.

Slide 6 reiterates that point. This is definitely a collaborative effort. We often work very closely with the provinces and municipalities to try to get, between us, all the information we need. Often the federal government doesn't have much of the information. It's really the provinces that have the management responsibilities, and often the municipalities that have a lot of the detailed information.

So we work quite hard at a collaboration to make sure everybody is sharing information and we all know what it means. Collectively, in doing this, we're establishing common approaches.

One of the real strengths of this program is due to Dr. Rivera. His vision sort of came out in 2001 that we needed to have a very comprehensive way of doing this and that everybody should be doing it roughly the same way, because water does move. It's our only natural resource that crosses boundaries all the time. If you have different approaches on two different sides of a boundary, then you've got incompatible data and you can't even begin to make policy.

The other thing we're doing as part of this program, which I think is key, is trying to create a groundwater information network. This is a completely distributed database system. Nobody holds all the information, but it's all accessible by everybody else. We're not trying to amass everything into a huge database; we're just trying to say that if it's available, then everybody should be able to get the information they need whenever they need it. It's really a question of linking things together.

Slide 7, I understand, is one of your primary interests--some of the aquifer systems in Alberta. Because aquifers are more like sponges than they are like lakes, it's actually very hard to depict them on maps, so this is a very schematic map. It shows the general locations of some of the key aquifers in Alberta. Of course, there are many more than are shown on here, but these are some of the ones we've identified as part of our list. I'll take you through the list starting at the top.

The Paskapoo sandstones is one of the major aquifers in Alberta. It sort of runs between Calgary and Edmonton. This is a primary focus of the Alberta Geological Survey and the Alberta environment department, because this supplies an awful lot of water to population centres in Alberta. This is something we just completed an assessment of with the Alberta groups, so it's now fairly complete.

The second thing we're focusing on now is the buried valley aquifers, which is “BV” on this graphic. These are paleovalleys. They are actually valleys that existed at one time but were since infilled by sediment. Because there were sediments put into these things--sediments are more porous, and let water run through them--the valleys still take a lot of water through them, but they're buried underneath the rock.

These are actually best thought of as a bunch of channels that run across the region and they're quite large in area of extent. This is of particular interest around the oil sands because they occupy a lot of the same area, as you can see.

This is something we're currently working on with Alberta and Saskatchewan, because these buried paleovalleys actually extend to Saskatchewan, and I believe some of them extend into Manitoba. They're quite large areas, and we're in discussions right now with Alberta and Saskatchewan about how they're best studied. They are huge systems and we can't understand the whole thing, but we want to understand the critical parts of it. We should complete the assessment of that aquifer system by about 2012.

There are three other sets of aquifers marked on the map, which currently aren't on our schedule to do in the next three years. They'll be prioritized in a different way. We still feel they're important, but they're not as critical in terms of timeliness as the buried paleovalleys.

We'd be remiss if we didn't mention our Alberta colleagues. They have a fairly proactive and forward-looking groundwater strategy that they started in 2007. They have started a 10-year plan to understand groundwater across the province. Their aquifer mapping process and progress is completely compatible with what we're doing. As we complete this inventory of 30, what they'll be doing in their program will add to that inventory and potentially speed up our access to completing all 30. The first area they are really focusing on is more in the Edmonton-Calgary corridor, but they're doing an awful lot of work around the oil sands as well, as I'm sure you're quite aware.

In summary of where we are with our program, as Mark said, we believe groundwater is a critical resource, and we're trying to get the information into people's hands so they can make sustainable management decisions. Lack of information is the real problem. We're doing this collectively with everybody who has a stake in groundwater management in Canada, because we really think collective leadership is what's going to allow us to have comprehensive, consistent data across the country. Our ultimate goal is that people do assessments of aquifers in a way in which information can be shared and contained. One of our challenges is that they do connect with surface water. They do connect across boundaries, including boundaries with the United States. Having a comprehensive database allows much more sound policy decisions.

At this point, we'd be quite happy to try to answer your questions.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you very much.

We'll stick with the five-minute rounds.

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Thank you for being here. That was a very interesting presentation.

In terms of creating an information network, I understand you're trying to encourage all the jurisdictions to use the same unit of measurement and measure things in the same way so that we can have a consistent distributed database, if you will. Is that going well? Are some jurisdictions possessive of their information? It sounds great in theory, and I'm sure it's working with some provinces, but is it working with all the provinces? Is it sort of a seamless effort, or are there frictions?

10:10 a.m.

Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. David Boerner

I'll take a quick shot at it, and then Alfonso can put some more details in.

I think it's working extremely well. I don't think anybody is being protective of data. I think some of the limitations are resources. A lot of this is trying to get existing data into the right formats in digital forms. That's a fairly person-intensive and therefore resource-intensive exercise.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Does that require hydrogeologists, if that's the term for the professional who does this kind of work?

10:10 a.m.

Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. David Boerner

Yes, I think it does.

Alfonso, do you want to add to that?

June 9th, 2009 / 10:10 a.m.

Dr. Alfonso Rivera Manager, Groundwater Mapping Program, Environment, Safety and Geographic Foundations Programs, Department of Natural Resources

Sure.

Yes, it does, but it's a mixture of technicians, because as soon as we begin by using standards, we have to have a mélange of both hydrogeologists, who understand groundwater physics or groundwater chemistry, and technicians, who understand the standards from the point of view of information management systems. So it's a collaborative effort.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Thank you very much, Dr. Rivera.

At our hearings in Edmonton, Dr. Mary Griffiths provided the following statement, which you may be aware of:

Although the Alberta Geological Survey has a long history of mapping hydrogeology in the Athabasca Oil Sands region, a great deal more needs to be done....Data are, for example, extremely sparse between Cold Lake and the Ft. McMurray area. Alberta Environment is in partnership with the Alberta Geological Survey to map groundwater resources in the province, but their work is currently focused on the Edmonton-Calgary corridor. The federal government could assist through the Natural Resources Canada Groundwater Mapping Program.

Do you agree with that statement?

10:15 a.m.

Manager, Groundwater Mapping Program, Environment, Safety and Geographic Foundations Programs, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Alfonso Rivera

Yes, I think we do, and actually we are already doing it. We are collaborating with them, and, as Dr. Boerner mentioned, the large system of Paskapoo was in fact quite an extensive study over more than three years. It was done by us in terms of standards that we are used to using, but also in terms of sharing the data with Alberta Environment and Alberta Geological Survey. So yes, we do.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

She makes another statement. Again, this was delivered not even a month ago:

The Natural Resources Canada Groundwater Mapping Program has identified about 30 key aquifers across Canada and undertaken mapping in some of them. One of the key hydrological regions includes the buried valley/blanket aquifers of Alberta. They are recognized as a source for domestic use, energy projects and industry, but the federal government has not focused on this region and indicates that the size, status and risks to the aquifers are unknown.

10:15 a.m.

Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. David Boerner

We're starting that process now, so we are taking that on, and I think the statement is accurate.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

My previous statement was accurate too, that you are working on that Cold Lake-Fort McMurray corridor? Okay.

I looked at the 30 aquifers. How many are transboundary, between provinces? It's not clear, really, from the map. What percentage would be sort of trans-provincial aquifers?

10:15 a.m.

Manager, Groundwater Mapping Program, Environment, Safety and Geographic Foundations Programs, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Alfonso Rivera

Transboundary is a word that's used extensively, but we distinguish transboundary aquifers in two ways. One, there are aquifers crossing boundaries within Canada, and then there are aquifers crossing boundaries between Canada and the U.S.A. For the first case, we have only four, but for the second case, aquifers crossing the boundary with the United States, we have seven identified and actually already two of them mapped.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Now, just as a matter of law, we're talking about a federal role in aquifer mapping, but we hear all the time that groundwater is a provincial resource. So are you allowed to just about go anywhere and map what you wish, or do you need permission from landowners? In other words, are you restricted technically to just mapping crown lands?

For example, Dr. Rivera, you were on the radio a while ago talking about some mapping going on; it was in the Chelsea region. Do you need permissions, or do you have some sort of legal power to go in there and drill your...your “eyes”, as you called them in your interview?

10:15 a.m.

Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. David Boerner

I'm not sure we can answer the legal question precisely, but we always do this, exactly, with the provinces or territories. We would never go in on our own to try to do something.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

So you have no problem; if you say, “We have to look at this”, they let you in?

10:15 a.m.

Director General, Central and Northern Canada Branch, Geological Survey of Canada, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. David Boerner

We have no problem. We actually have an agreement between the federal government and each of the provinces called the Intergovernmental Geoscience Accord. It sort of separates the provincial roles from the federal roles, and collaboration is a key thing. We never do anything unilaterally. It's always done with the permission of the provinces. For individual landowners, of course, we absolutely have to have permission to work on their land.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you very much.

Monsieur Bigras.

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

First I want to welcome our witnesses.

I was surprised to read that the most recent exhaustive study on Canada's groundwater resources had been published in 1967. Is that correct? I was not yet born then. That gives you an idea of how much we know about groundwater resources.

I would also like to reiterate that the provinces have proprietary rights over the natural resources and that, legally, groundwater regulations come under provincial jurisdiction. For its part, the federal government is responsible for developing knowledge and funding university research.

That said, I want to ask a very basic question. Since the Geological Survey of Canada plays an important role, I would like to know whether its budget has been increased.

10:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Mark Corey

The budget for this program was approximately $3 million, but this year, we have increased it to $3.9 million. Our goal is to accelerate the work, because we know that it is quite important.

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

In the report that Dr. Bruce presented to us this morning, he talks about an important model based on data bases, the geological framework and the hydrological regime. However, there are obstacles. First, this mandate hasn't been given to higher authorities. Second, funding is insufficient for program implementation and there is a shortage of staff or skills to develop and implement those programs. Finally, the available data are insufficient.

I understand that your budget has been increased and that you are doing your best, but will you admit that there are major obstacles in terms of resources, based on the report we have here?

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Mark Corey

Mr. Chair, program resources are always insufficient. Employees are always trying to obtain more resources.

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

I understand, but is this compromising access to information by the public? There are never enough resources, but there are urgent needs. We are currently looking at the impact of the oil sands on groundwater reserves. Some studies show that the Northwest Territories and Saskatchewan could face a water shortage. Is the lack of resources not compromising access to essential information by the public?

10:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Mark Corey

I would say no. We have added resources this year. We are trying to accelerate the work and we are doing what we can with the available resources. Also, we have made groundwater a priority.