Environment Committee on June 9th, 2009

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

Not from us directly, but we can provide you with a copy from other groups who did it.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

That would be helpful.

Thank you very much. I think I have come to the end of my time.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Moving on, we'll go to Monsieur Bigras.

You don't have questions?

Mr. Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the panellists for being here this morning.

According to your presentation, 12 studies have been completed so far. At a high level, could you just describe some of the data that's been collected through these studies and the conclusions that have been drawn?

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

Yes. Most of them are regionally scaled. We have observed that they are in pre-development conditions, meaning that they are not over-exploited.

Second, we also observed that in most of the cases, for domestic, agricultural, and industrial use, people are using mostly the upper 200 metres--I would even say 150 metres--of depth.

Third, we also have observed that the recharge for most of them, the recharge in the cycle of every year, is in the order of 30% to 40% of precipitation. In some cases, we were a bit surprised. We have observed that the recharge can be as high as 60%, as it is in some cases of aquifers in British Columbia.

Another aspect we have observed is that the quality of groundwater is excellent. It is, we believe, as in cases in Quebec, still untouched, so to speak, by anthropogenic effects.

But again, I must emphasize that we are working on a regional scale. As you go to a scale that is perhaps a municipality, or rural in some cases, that is perhaps something different. At a higher scale, this is what we see.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much.

Just to clarify one of the points you've just made, in some cases you mention that the recharge percentage from precipitation can be lower. What factors contribute to a lower percentage of recharge?

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

Essentially it's the geology. Don't forget, as Mr. Trudeau already mentioned, in Canada we have preglacial, and after deglaciation, we have extensive areas of tills and clays that have accumulated and that prevent recharge because the permeability is very low. That's one of the reasons.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

With respect to the 12 completed studies, is there anything unique about the regions in which you have completed the studies that has allowed you to complete those now as opposed to the other regions for which the studies are not yet completed? Were there factors involved in expediting the completion of some studies?

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

When we began this series of assessments, we had a list of priority criteria to select aquifers that we were going to map. That is what we are using so far. They are related to economic factors, to people using the aquifers. Paskapoo, for instance, which you see on the map, is used extensively by municipalities and rural areas. That makes it a priority high-level aquifer.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Earlier today when Dr. Bruce was here, he indicated in part of his testimony, or perhaps in a response to a question, that the impact of the oil sands on groundwater is “difficult” to study. Do you concur with that?

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

I do, certainly. As I said, there are so many mechanisms by which contaminated groundwater can be transferred.

The easiest example to understand is that if you put any contaminant in water, it moves with the water. That's an advective transport. Groundwater doesn't behave like that, because it goes through pores or fractures. So in addition to advective transport, you have to add molecular diffusion.... I don't know if I have time to explain this, but it's very complicated...from the ion exchange to rock.

Don't forget that groundwater may change the geology and vice versa. The rocks may affect groundwater. Sometimes you need to separate natural phenomena versus anthropogenic phenomena.

I concur with what he said. It's very difficult.

[Dr. David Boerner]

I would suspect he actually means the three things that Dr. Rivera outlined, of sustainable yield, transport mechanism, and interconnections between systems. Without an understanding of how that works, all three of those are a little problematic. We're at the beginning stages of understanding that aquifer, so it's hard to be concrete about any of those three. That's probably what he meant.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You have only a very short time left.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Specifically, could you help me understand what studies or research is being done to determine the impact of the oil sands developments on groundwater?

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

By us?

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Yes.

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

No, we haven't....

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay. So you're relying on perhaps studies that are being done provincially?

[Dr. Alfonso Rivera]

By Alberta, yes.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Mr. Watson, you have the floor.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I have no questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Does anybody else have questions?

Mr. Scarpaleggia.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

I have just one.

In your last statement, you said you aren't doing any work to study the impact of the oil sands on water, but you had done some work around Cold Lake. Did I understand correctly?