Environment Committee on May 13th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You do.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

I am going to ask a question of Environment Canada and Ms. Milburn-Hopwood.

The cumulative impact monitoring program, which you touched on, is an INAC-led initiative to monitor the cumulative impacts in the Northwest Territories, specifically to examine how all the uses of the land, water, and deposits of waste affect the environment now and in the future.

The program follows a community-based approach and provides resources to fill the gaps in current monitoring activities. Budget 2010 provided INAC with $8 million over two years to support community-based environmental monitoring, reporting, and baseline data collection through the Northwest Territories cumulative impact monitoring program, CIMP, and the Nunavut general monitoring program. INAC and its partners will determine needs and priorities for cumulative effects environmental monitoring in the Northwest Territories.

The CIMP program will provide decision-makers with a monitoring tool to aid in strategic decision-making and continuous learning. CIMP will be a standardized, tiered system of data collection and reporting using common protocols of a partnership network that engages, coordinates, and integrates monitoring and research activities, a network of partners who have the capacity to prepare, implement, report on, and participate in the monitoring programs and accessible baseline and long-term monitoring information.

Ultimately, the program will ensure the effective and coordinated collection and management of regulatory, scientific, and traditional knowledge data related to the environmental cumulative impacts. My question is, how will Environment Canada support INAC in the continued implementation of CIMP?

[Sue Milburn-Hopwood]

Thank you for the question.

Environment Canada has provided technical and scientific advice in support of CIMP since the program's inception 10 years ago. This is a program that's been going on for 10 years. The program has been governed by the representatives of the land claim groups, INAC, and the Government of the Northwest Territories. Environment Canada has been at the table, but in an observer capacity. Despite that, I think it's fair to say that we've contributed quite actively in that role.

We've contributed in the past and expect to contribute in a similar way in the future, and in four ways, really. First of all, we'll be supporting the program partners in determining the needs and the priorities for environmental monitoring in the Northwest Territories, so we'll be sorting out what the needs are before we decide on which projects.

We'll also be providing technical advice on what are the valued components of the ecosystem that we should be protecting, monitoring, and assessing the cumulative impacts for. We'll be looking at indicators and some of the monitoring protocols. It's that whole area of technical advice that we'll be providing.

We'll be reviewing specific monitoring proposals as they come into the program.

Finally, we'll actually be doing some of the monitoring. Some of our scientists can apply and get funding from this program, so they'll bring their own expertise. They'll bring some of Environment Canada's resources to the table and then they'll actually do some of the work, because we have scientists who work in this field.

Those are the four ways in which we contribute to this program. We look forward to working with INAC and the other partners as this program moves into its new phase.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you very much.

Your time has expired.

Mrs. Crombie, you'll kick us off on our five-minute round. Welcome to the committee.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you. It's a delight to be here.

Greetings, Madam Fraser. We used to sit together on the public accounts committee.

I want to turn your attention to recommendation 4.62 on page 35. Of course, it has to do with cumulative impact monitoring. This is all very new to me, but this certainly stuck out, if I may say so. Of course, Environment Canada agreed. They stated that they:

support the needs and requirements for cumulative impact monitoring in the NWT and acknowledges INAC’s lead.

In light of this recommendation and the recommendations contained in the Joint Review Panel...Report for the Mackenzie Gas Project...(released December 2009)--

That was just five months ago.

--Environment Canada will work along with INAC and other government departments to develop the Government Response--

So you know where this is going.

--to the JRP Report that will lay out appropriate actions and in doing so will address the findings and recommendations....

Auditor General, is there such a plan? Did you go further in your analysis with the joint review panel recommendations? Have you looked at them?

[Sheila Fraser]

Mr. Chair, I'll ask Mr. Vaughan to respond to that.

[Scott Vaughan]

Thank you for the question.

The joint review panel has made their recommendations. I believe there were approximately 170. I think the government--and my colleagues can correct me--is in the process now of pulling together its response to each of those recommendations.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I understand as well from the panel that it's not always clear to individuals working in the field or the local residents which organizations they should call in the event of an emergency, accident, or spill. Which agency is responsible? Who's in charge?

[Patrick Borbey]

If it's a spill, as I explained earlier, there is a spill hotline and there is a requirement to report any spill. INAC immediately intervenes and sends an inspector. After that, we determine what measures need to be taken to immediately fix the problem. Then, after that, we pursue the possibility of charges, fines, or other measures with respect to the incident.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

So INAC is in charge.

[Patrick Borbey]

If it's a spill. I'm not sure what other—

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

And if it's an emergency...?

[Patrick Borbey]

For any emergency there are protocols in place in the north where multiple agencies have agreed to a protocol to intervene.

If it's a search and rescue situation or something of that nature, the local community works with enforcement agencies, as well as organizations like INAC and even, in some cases, private industry, which may have assets on the ground that could intervene at a very early stage.

There are different protocols in place.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

The joint review panel also recommended that:

--within one year of the date of the Government Response to the Panel's Report, the Government of Canada publish a plan that demonstrates that Transport Canada has adequate capacity in place to ensure that spills and accidents in the Arctic marine environment are appropriately prevented, detected and remediated, and that contraventions of existing legislation will be prosecuted.

Where are we with that plan?

[Patrick Borbey]

If you're asking in terms of the response, the government is currently considering the recommendations and preparing a response to each recommendation, so I can't really get into that kind of a discussion. In terms of anything that has to do with marine shipping—

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, I think we are on a tangent and the questioning isn't relevant to the discussion today. It may be relevant...and I think that these are good questions, but I ask for your guidance.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Well, the guidance is that because the department itself, in the response to the AG on page 35 and also on page 21, referenced the joint review panel and the report on the Mackenzie gas project, it is relevant.

[Mark Warawa, Conservative, Langley, BC]

Thank you.

[Patrick Borbey]

I'll conclude by saying that Transport Canada is part of the team that is reviewing the JRP report and advising the government. Each one of those recommendations is being studied very seriously. At some point, the government will be moving forward with its response.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

When do we expect that?

[Patrick Borbey]

I'm not in a position to discuss that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

If I could just interject, going to chapter 20 of O'Brien and Bosc, on page 1,068, it is stated that:

Particular attention is paid to the questioning of public servants. The obligation of a witness to answer all questions put by the committee must be balanced against the role that public servants play in providing confidential advice to their Ministers. The role of the public servant has traditionally been viewed in relation to the implementation and administration of government policy, rather than the determination of what that policy should be. Consequently, public servants have been excused from commenting on the policy decisions made by the government. In addition, committees ordinarily accept the reasons that a public servant gives for declining to answer a specific question or series of questions which involve the giving of a legal opinion, which may be perceived as a conflict with the witness' responsibility to the Minister....

I'm going to excuse Mr. Borbey from answering those questions.

You have a minute.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

Let me ask the Auditor General as well who she thinks is in charge. Who should be responsible in the event of an emergency?

[Sheila Fraser]

Chair, it's not something we looked at, so I really don't feel qualified to be able to answer that. I don't know if the commissioner wants to....

[Scott Vaughan]

Yes. Well, just as a point of information for the future, we're in the process right now of completing the examination phase to look at pollution at sea and the federal government responsibility related to both preparedness and response. That will include both east and west, and the north, and it will be presented to Parliament in the fall.