Environment Committee on Oct. 15th, 2012

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I absolutely have to respond to this.

Criticism has been levelled at Parks Canada that cuts are undermining the health and integrity of Canada's renowned parks, risking some of our world heritage sites, significantly reducing the number of scientists and technical staff, hurting relationships with aboriginal peoples, and attacking rural communities.

In a job interview, you can say that cuts are coming and ask how the person is going to achieve something with those cuts.

The cuts are coming. We know that scientists are being cut. One of the management principles in Parks Canada, the premier one, used to be ecological integrity. There appears to be some slippage there.

My question is how he will protect ecological integrity when scientists are being cut.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

I'm going to end the points of order because I think we've had adequate discussion on this, particularly when the question being proposed by Ms. Duncan is almost identical in text with what Madam Quach introduced to the committee about 10 or 15 minutes ago. That question was called out of order, so it would also have to be out of order for you, Ms. Duncan.

For the additional time, please make sure your questioning focuses on the qualifications of the candidates. If the committee would like to have Mr. Latourelle and Mr. Hamilton come back for further discussions dealing with ozone or cuts or whatever, that would be the time to ask those kinds of questions, but right now we need to focus on qualifications for this appointment.

Thank you. Carry on.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'm going to try to focus on competencies and qualifications. These are difficult balances, as you've pointed out, that have to be struck.

With respect to Nááts'ihch'oh National Park Reserve, there is concern that wildlife habitat and tributaries are unprotected. I want to recognize that creating a new national park in Canada is always welcome news, but this boundary does not reflect the extensive scientific evidence of what's needed to protect the ecological integrity of the Nahanni watershed. This area includes critical habitat for woodland caribou herds and grizzly bears.

There are people who are saying some of the most important habitat for these species is outside the park. I'm wondering whether there is going to be room to change the boundaries to address the scientific and aboriginal concerns.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

A point of order.

[Robert Sopuck, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB]

This question relates to policy. Mr. Latourelle was given a decision about the boundaries of the park. It's his job to implement the policies of Parks Canada in the best way that he can.

I think asking about his qualifications as to how he's going to implement Parks Canada's policies that come from the elected government of the day is more appropriate. I'd ask the chair to rule the question out of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

I will again ask Ms. Duncan to make sure her questions are directly related to the competency of the appointees. Thank you.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Are we not allowed to ask on vision and strategy? It was clear in the Library of Parliament document that we could ask about vision.

I'd like to ask one last question, which will be vision-related to a specific department. Is that going to be ruled out of order?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

That likely would be if it's not directly related to competency for the appointments.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Can I try asking the question? This will be my last question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Go ahead.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Ozonesondes are required to profile ozone pollution in the lower atmosphere. Ozonesonde launches have now ceased at Egbert and Bratt's Lake, leaving only five southern stations still operating: Churchill, Edmonton, Goose Bay, Kelowna, and Yarmouth.

There are currently no ozonesonde launches in Canada's two most populated provinces—

[Stella Ambler, Conservative, Mississauga South, ON]

A point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

I'll let the member finish her question.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

—Ontario and Quebec. There is nothing in Prince Edward Island or in New Brunswick, which are both downwind from pollution sources in Canada and the United States.

This is the vision piece. I'm wondering what Canada's plans are for the remaining five southern ozonesonde stations. Will any of them be shut down?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

A point of order, Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

Mr. Chair, my colleague opposite and I have spent much time in the House of Commons discussing ozone.

In fact, today in question period I would have loved a question from her to that effect. We could have talked about how Canada has a world-class track record in ozone monitoring, how Ms. Dodds appeared before committee and spoke of the capacity our government has not only to continue to meet these obligations, but to continue our world-class reputation with this.

Many times in the House, in fact, in adjournment proceedings and in question period I've spoken to my colleague about these capacity questions, and Ms. Dodds was here specifically to answer her questions. However, today the scope of the questioning that we are tasked with is pursuant to Standing Order 111, as I've brought up several times already today.

I would disagree with my colleague opposite. She actually has not asked a question about vision yet. She has not asked, “What is your vision for the department?” I would ask my colleague opposite to be cognizant of the line of questioning that we are tasked with today and to direct her questions appropriately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Ms. Duncan.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I've been very clear. I have asked very specific questions on vision for the department, and since my colleague raised it, I would like to address some of her comments from the House.

Last fall the environment minister said dozens of times that the World Ozone and Ultraviolet Radiation Data Centre would continue to provide “world-class” services. An important component of those world-class services is scientific oversight of the data centre. Last December, Assistant Deputy Minister Karen Dodds told this committee that the science and technology branch “will maintain...the scientific oversight of the integrity of the data”. At the same meeting, Director General Charles Lin agreed, saying that “the S and T branch under Karen will provide scientific oversight”. Those are both direct quotes.

What we know now is that the ozone group scientists have all been reassigned to the air quality directorate, so the science and technology branch is not providing scientific oversight to the data centre. I wanted to address that.

I have no more questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Mr. Woodworth, on the same point of order.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Yes. I am pretty sure that I clearly heard the question that was asked, and it was regarding what Canada's plans are. It may well be that Ms. Duncan's personal agenda is to discuss environment department or Canadian government policy on this, that, or the next thing, but we have rules in place which really ought to be respected by the members.

We are not here today to engage in any personal preoccupation with a particular policy or implementation of what are Canada's plans. We're here today to determine whether or not the two individuals before us have the qualifications and the capability of doing the job they have been tasked to do. I really object to any attempt by members of the committee to go outside what we have agreed to as a committee and to drive their own personal agenda.

If they want to do that, they can bring a motion to get the environment minister here to ask what are Canada's plans. You don't need to ask it of people who are not here for that purpose.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

I think we've had adequate opportunity to address that point of order. I will rule again that the questions are not relevant to the qualifications or competence of Mr. Latourelle or Mr. Hamilton, and therefore the questions are out of order.

We have almost no time left, so I'm going to give one minute each to Mr. Choquette and Ms. Rempel.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This was a very hectic meeting where it was difficult to get floor time, given all the points of order. Nevertheless, we have learned a great deal.

I am happy to meet and welcome Mr. Latourelle and Mr. Hamilton as they take on their new positions. In a minute, I will not be able to ask you any questions at all, but I still want to mention what interests me the most in the area of the environment—science. Mr. Hamilton already talked about that.

This issue is not necessarily part of your work, but I would like to talk about the numerous cuts recently made in the science sector, including ecotoxicology. Cuts have been made to all the resources in that sector. Recently, belugas were found in the St. Lawrence River, close to Montreal. That is very worrisome, not only in terms of the environment, but also in terms of the impact on humans, who will eventually be affected by the repercussions of those environmental incidents.

I don't really have any questions. I just wanted to welcome you and thank you for joining us today. I hope that Environment Canada will invest in science because, without science, it is impossible to make the right decisions regarding the environment. I am sure that, if I were to ask you a question, it would be seen as irrelevant, but I wanted to welcome you anyway and express the hope that you will make room for science as part of your responsibilities. Unfortunately, you are not the decision-makers, but this issue is nevertheless very important.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

Ms. Rempel, you have a minute and a half.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Centre-North, AB]

I will address my question to Mr. Latourelle.

I noticed on your CV that you have been with Parks Canada for several years. You have made your career there.

I think we have achieved a lot as a country with regard to our national parks system. I think we recently received an award from the World Wildlife Federation as well as from CPAWS on a lot of the conservation work we've been doing.

With regard to your experience and competency, what would you consider to be one of your greatest accomplishments or one of the greatest accomplishments you have been involved in with Parks Canada during your tenure with the department?