Environment Committee on Oct. 17th, 2012

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Okay. I heard a yes.

What is urban conservation? That is point one. What could be the goals of connecting urban Canadians with conservation? That is point two. Third is about best practices in Canada for urban conservation. What urban conservation initiatives are currently in use? What are the best practices and challenges for the same? What are the economic, health, biodiversity, and social benefits associated with urban conservation? How do we define a protected space? Finally, what is the role of the federal government in urban conservation?

Keeping that in mind, I would encourage Ms. Duncan to stay within that scope.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to come back to ecological integrity.

Mr. Campbell, it's exciting. You said that you think we're going to hear more in the next while about Rouge park. Is that correct?

[Andrew Campbell]

That is correct.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

We heard from stakeholders last week. There is great concern about ecological integrity. Can you speak to how ecological integrity is going to be protected in Rouge park?

[Andrew Campbell]

Yes, I'm certainly happy to talk about that.

Ecological integrity is a concept which in the urban environment in a national park like the Rouge national urban park in fact will not be the foundation principle that we will have there. It will be ecological health. We're looking at the International Union for Conservation of Nature for different ways that “ecology” is defined.

When you look at ecological integrity in an urban environment, ecological integrity would actually mean the bringing back of natural processes. I believe that many people within Markham, Toronto, and other areas aren't very keen on our allowing full flooding of the Rouge watershed. In fact they have told us that. They are not very keen on our not suppressing wildfires. They aren't very keen on our not having any connection back and forth toward the movement of certain species in and out and how we would deal with invasive species.

While there is a small group who believe it should be ecological integrity, there is a wide range of individuals, a much larger group who, through all of the consultations that we've done, have said that ecological health, in fact, makes far greater sense in that area.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I'm struggling here because you said that from the legislation it's ecological integrity.

[Andrew Campbell]

Yes.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Now we hear it's ecological health. I come back to the stakeholders who are concerned that there is some slippage. Is this going to be strictly for the Rouge? Is this for urban parks? Will this be for all urban conservation?

[Andrew Campbell]

An overwhelming—and I will stress overwhelming—number of environmental non-governmental organizations are very concerned that we would bring ecological integrity as a principle into the Rouge national urban park, which is I feel—

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

No, we understand we're not going to suppress wildfires.

[Andrew Campbell]

I'm in a position where I have difficulty at this point answering. Maybe when I come back I'll be more prepared to respond to that, merely because I don't have everything in front of me. I didn't realize we'd go into the Rouge in this depth today.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

That's fair.

Perhaps I could broaden it out, then. For parks, if we're talking about urban conservation, the legislation, as you've said, says it's ecological integrity. Going forward, as we're thinking about urban conservation, what is your recommendation to the committee?

[Andrew Campbell]

On the national park, in the Canada National Parks Act, I have heard nothing that would make me believe there will be any change to ecological integrity being a first priority. On the Rouge national urban park, ecological health seems to be the thing that makes the most sense, so there may need to be some sort of different legislative framework around that.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Going forward, because this is about urban conservation, what is your recommendation to this committee for best practices?

[Andrew Campbell]

At this point it would be that a definition of ecological health be put in legislation and in fact be the way forward with the Rouge national urban park.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

I'll ask you both, what areas of urban conservation require more attention in Canada?

Ms. Poter, could you give us your comprehensive list? The more ideas you can give us, the stronger we can make the study.

Could you each do that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Unfortunately, time has expired so I'm going to ask for a quick answer from Ms. Poter.

[Virginia Poter]

I'll come back to the statement. Municipalities are the ones that are going to be setting the laws and the by-laws in their particular local area. I think what is helpful is that the people who are responsible for planning are factoring in the need for conservation in an urban setting. With all respect to my colleague from Parks Canada, it's not just about parks. It's about corridors. It's about green roofs. It's about planting trees. It's about a lot of things in addition to parks, which are a very important element.

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Thank you so much.

Madam Quach, you have five minutes.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I would like to thank our two witnesses for joining us today.

My first question is for Ms. Poter.

You talked about the Environment Canada programs that help groups with their work on urban conservation. You talked about the habitat stewardship program in particular. I was wondering if you knew whether the criteria had been changed or if any changes had been made. In fact, all the groups from Quebec that applied to this program have not received a response. They usually receive an answer in April. Representatives from Ambioterra and Nature Québec, among others, have contacted us. Do you have any news about that?

[Virginia Poter]

The approvals for the habitat stewardship program have gone out. Letters have gone to proponents of various projects, so I can't speak to why there is a sense that no projects in Quebec were approved.

I would have to confirm this. I believe there are a fair number of projects in Quebec. About a fifth of the projects are from Quebec, but again, I would have to confirm the facts. As far as I know, they have been approved.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Do you think that the criteria have changed?

[Virginia Poter]

There are a variety of programs, and these are national programs. They're not just targeting urban centres. For the habitat stewardship program, that's about promoting actions to support species at risk that are focused on habitat.

As we know, the major issue for most species at risk, but not all, relates to habitat. We have a fund that we're able to put out there to incent the stewardship type of actions that are so helpful to species at risk.

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Thank you very much.

I have other questions for Mr. Campbell.

You said that Parks Canada creates a lot of jobs. You also talked about Parks Canada's major role in giving Canadians from urban centres an opportunity to be in contact with nature and to develop a sense of pride in conservation efforts. You also talked about the Lachine Canal National Historic Site, which was being restored this summer.

But, as you must know, there have been cuts or early closures of those national historic sites this summer. There was one in my riding. Actually, there was an early closure of the Bataille-de-la-Châteauguay national historic site. Furthermore, the guides have been replaced by signs. So visitors no longer have contact with real guides. The guides used to answer questions, give advice and organize interactive activities, thereby allowing visitors to increase their knowledge through educational activities.

In addition, the educational activities at Montreal's Biosphere have been completely scrapped by the government. How do you see all those cuts, given that the government says it is creating jobs and trying to promote this type of experience? What can you tell us about the work of the guides and their importance on those sites?

[The Chair, Conservative, Mark Warawa]

Ms. Rempel, on a point of order.