Evidence of meeting #15 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Maurice Bitran  Assistant Deputy Minister, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
Jim Richardson  Director, Ministry of Agriculture & Food, Environmental Management Branch, Government of Ontario
Ian Wilcox  General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
Brian Nixon  Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

Thank you very much.

You talked about the environmental farm plan. I assume this is a voluntary program. What kind of uptake do you have, percentage-wise or numbers-wise, with the environmental farm plan?

4:15 p.m.

Director, Ministry of Agriculture & Food, Environmental Management Branch, Government of Ontario

Jim Richardson

I can't quote you the numbers on the watershed basis for Lake Simcoe, but in Ontario there are about 59,000 farms in the province, and 23,000 best practices have been funded over about 13,000 different farms.

We find that for every dollar that Canada and Ontario put in through the Growing Forward 1 program, we leverage about $3 to $4 of farmer investment in best practices. That's only for those people who actually come to us for money. Some people take the workshops and go do the work on their own.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

Yes, absolutely. Thank you very much for that.

Mr. Nixon, you talked about the regulatory approach that the Province of Ontario has, and its being one of the pinnacles in the country. Could you tell me something that stands out to you that would make it surpass, say, many of the other provinces, or something that the other provinces perhaps should be looking at?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario

Brian Nixon

Mr. Chair, I guess it started with the Safe Drinking Water Act, which the government of the day committed to putting in place. It focused on a complete overhaul of regulatory.... It put strong regulations in place for the treatment of drinking water and the licensing of operators of those systems. It established a drinking water quality management standard and a chief drinking water inspector for the province. Annual reports that have come out have demonstrated since that time that we have, I think, 99.9% quality drinking water coming out of the tap, which is a significant achievement.

There are things of that nature. Initially the focus was on drinking water, and subsequent to that time, as has been mentioned today, the focus has been around protecting sources of drinking water to prevent contamination from getting into the system, which then has to be treated. Again, I think it's fairly leading-edge in terms of the focus that has been placed through legislation and regulations and through work locally with conservation authorities like the one for the Upper Thames and others to develop plans for the protection of those sources.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

Have you been able to carry that over with regard to first nations inside the province of Ontario?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario

Brian Nixon

We have worked with the federal government on pilot projects within Ontario for demonstrated innovative water technologies on reserve. That was a pilot program we worked closely with the federal government on in the past couple of years.

It's recognized that each province has its own regulatory system in place for the protection and management of drinking water, and Ontario is no different.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

What measurable results do you have out of this program you just talked about?

4:20 p.m.

Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario

Brian Nixon

I'm sorry, I don't have those in front of me. I believe the program is still in play in terms of working those pilots out.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

No problem. If you do come across—

4:20 p.m.

Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario

Brian Nixon

I certainly can get that information for you.

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

I'm very generous and I'll let you have 15 seconds from Mr. Sopuck.

4:20 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

We'll move over to Mr. McKay.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Thank you, Chair, for that seven minutes and 15 seconds.

Thank you, all, for your presentations here.

Our ambassador in Washington, Mr. Doer, recently said that water is the new oil and that the dispute over water will make Keystone look like child's play.

The Great Lakes basin is probably going to be the epicentre of that dispute in the foreseeable future. This is not just a theoretical possibility, because there is a small city in Wisconsin that's applying for a transfer of water from the Great Lakes basin to its basin. I don't know what it is, but it's not the Great Lakes basin.

This is my question for the folks from Ontario: Do you have a policy and what is that policy? Also, what jurisdictional authorities do you have, or potentially do you need, with respect to interbasin transfers?

4:20 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I didn't want to raise this until I actually heard Mr. McKay's question. There was quite a preamble to it.

The concern I have is that I'm really quite interested in Great Lakes water quality. That's why I asked for this study. I suppose I don't begrudge Mr. McKay an interest in the question of international water transfers, but I don't believe it's relevant to the study, and I would prefer to hear evidence from the witnesses about Great Lakes water quality. So, I would ask you to disallow the question for lack of relevance to this study.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Mr. McKay, I would agree that the focus of this study is clearly on water quality.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Well, if there's no quantity, there's no quality.

4:25 p.m.

A voice

That's correct.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

So, that is, frankly, an irrelevant objection. So the question is in order, and I frankly don't think it's up to other members to decide what is or is not relevant to a question.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Mr. McKay, could you just focus—

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Chair, look at the three areas. Identifying locations: Well, the whole basin is in play here. Reviewing the efforts that are planned: I'm asking specifically what is the policy and what's the jurisdiction? Recommending best practices: I'm asking, because this train is coming down the tracks.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON

Mr. Chair, frankly, Mr. McKay and I get along well enough that I won't take it as an insult that he characterizes my point of order as irrelevant.

I have not heard Mr. McKay suggest anything in his question about water quality. I don't think that the issue of transfers of water licence automatically results in water quality issues. There has been no foundation laid at all to suggest any connection between these issues whatsoever.

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht

Mr. McKay, I'm going to ask you to proceed to water quality issues, please.

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

In terms of the water quality issues, what would be the effect of transferring between watersheds?