Evidence of meeting #15 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Okay.
Under our national conservation plan—this committee held hearings; it's being developed—I would assume you would strongly support what the committee talked about, the creation of large-scale, incentive-based conservation programming on private land.
General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
I'm not familiar with the program but—
Conservative
General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
—from what you've said, absolutely.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
The national conservation plan was an election commitment of our government, and those of us around the table here, on all sides of the House, concluded that an incentive-based program should be a part of that program.
I was interested in your point, Mr. Wilcox, about broader and stronger regulations to complement the incentives. I'm directing my comments to the privately owned agricultural landscape only. What specific regulations do you want to see beefed up or new regulations put in place?
General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
It's a great question.
I have to refer to the work of my colleagues and the work of even the International Joint Commission. This has been a big discussion recently.
There are certain practices; voluntary incentive programs only go so far. There are practices that have a major impact.
I'll just pick on a few. Winter spreading of manure, for example, is an issue; the requirement to have cover crops to prevent more erosion and phosphorus delivery in the spring; and septic system inspections, routine inspections, or inspections at the time of title transfer, if there is a sale. Those types of specific practices can be regulated.
Beyond that, I'm lumping also into this what I call cross-compliance. I think you've heard a few things here. We have an incentive-based program that we deliver, the clean water program, but we require any landowners, before they're eligible, to complete an environmental farm plan, which Mr. Richardson talked about. It's not a traditional form of regulation, but the cross-compliance, you have to have the conservation farm plan in place first before you're eligible for any help from incentives.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
I'm glad you clarified that because cross-compliance in the American agricultural policy framework usually means that a producer wouldn't be eligible for income support programs unless they.... So that's not what you're talking about in terms of cross-compliance.
General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
No.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Okay, great. That's most helpful.
In terms of the regulatory approach, with what you listed there and what you omitted, you don't want to regulate farmers' use of their own land, in terms of the decisions they make on their own land to make their farms more efficient and more economical for them and their families.
General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
I don't think we're at that point. I don't think that's efficient or effective in the long run.
Conservative
Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB
Yes. I strongly support what you just said.
In terms of on-farm incentive-based programming, would you like to see Ontario and Canada adopt U.S.- and European-style farm programs, where environmental conservation is a significant part of their agricultural policies?
General Manager and Secretary-Treasurer, Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
Again, our work is more local. I'm not as familiar with national and international. Absolutely, we're moving in that direction, but it has been 30-40 years of slow progress. Again, when I'm talking about stronger policies, if there's a requirement to participate in conservation farm planning for whatever cross-compliance measure, I would support that, absolutely.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Your time is up.
We'll move now to Mr. Choquette for five minutes, please.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is for the representatives from the Ministry of the Environment and the Ministry of Agriculture and Food.
As you know, the Canada-Ontario agreement is still being negotiated. Many groups are asking what is going on with this agreement. When will it be signed? Are you involved in the current negotiations?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
I am the lead negotiator for Ontario. We are pleased to have concluded negotiations with my colleague from Environment Canada. The process to have the agreement approved by the authorities of both governments is currently under way.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
Yes, recently.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
That is very good news. I know many people and groups who will be pleased to hear that.
There has not been an agreement since 2012. During negotiations, did you still receive funding from the federal government to continue to ensure the water quality?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
This was the eighth agreement negotiation. Some processes are under way, even during negotiations. These negotiations have taken a lot of time, but they did not have a negative impact on the work that the province and the federal government are doing on the Great Lakes water quality.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Thank you very much.
A little earlier, you spoke about the importance of climate change. I think that Ontario has the municipal adaptation and resiliency service. Can you tell us a little bit about that program in relation to water quality in the Great Lakes?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
It is an information program for the municipalities. There is a website and a training program for municipalities to implement efforts to prevent the negative effect of climate change, such as severe storms and things like that.
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
If I understand correctly, the responsibility for the Experimental Lakes Area has been transferred to the Government of Ontario. A lot of work was done on the phosphorous in those lakes. What is happening with that? Will you continue to do research? Will there be research to improve the water quality in the Great Lakes?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
One of my colleagues is responsible for this file. Indeed, the experimental station has been transferred and the Ministry of the Environment has signed an agreement with an institute to continue to operate the scientific station. Lastly, research is being done not only on the water quality, but also on the quality of the lake environment. How can the lake recover, for example, from contamination?
NDP
François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC
Will that help us in our work to fight for the water quality in the Great Lakes? Will it apply? Will consideration be given to the water quality in the Great Lakes when this research is done?