Evidence of meeting #15 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ontario.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
Mr. Chair, from a water quality perspective, my colleague Mr. Richardson is a former colleague from the ministry.
Ontario has specific laws in place that restrict the taking of water, both from the Great Lakes and obviously from groundwater sources. We have a Great Lakes charter, which is an agreement between Quebec, Ontario, and the Great Lakes states, that completely restricts the movement of water on a quality basis outside of the Great Lakes basin.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
How does that work? Does an entity make an application? When you say there's a charter, is that a legally enforceable charter?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
It's a non-binding agreement among the parties.
In terms of Ontario's system—and the question was asked earlier, Mr. Chair, about the type of regulatory system we have in place—we have a fairly robust what's called the permit to take water program dating back to the 1960s, I believe, under the Ontario Resources Water Act, which sets limits on how much water can be taken, establishes rules for the review of those takings, and requires a permit, an application, scientific review, and that sort of thing.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
That's for any water taking in Ontario above 50,000 litres a day.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Okay, but all of Ontario is within the Great Lakes watershed though, is it not?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Yes, that's correct.
So would that 50,000 litres a day only apply to cities or municipalities or whatever, even businesses, within Ontario's jurisdiction? Or does it apply to the eight Great Lake states somehow?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
That's Ontario's law, Mr. Chair.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Okay.
What about this charter that you have with the eight states plus Quebec? How does that apply?
4:25 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
It restricts the movement of water outside of the Great Lakes basin and sets out requirements for movement of water between basins of each of the Great Lakes.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
How would the example that I cited apply to this Great Lakes charter?
4:30 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
I think I've indicated that the agreements we have in place with our neighbouring jurisdictions plus Ontario law itself would prevent the movement of water out of the basin into what has typically been southern jurisdictions that are seeking water.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
They're seeking 900,000 gallons a day. That's a pretty serious amount of water.
4:30 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
It's going to be subject to public review, I believe, under the terms of the charter, and debate and probably intervention potentially through the courts, depending on the decisions that are made. Each of the parties to that agreement have the ability to challenge decisions made within those jurisdictions in the courts.
4:30 p.m.
Director, Ministry of the Environment, Integrated Environmental Policy Division, Government of Ontario
I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I'm not familiar with that level of detail. Perhaps Mr. Richardson may be.
4:30 p.m.
Director, Ministry of Agriculture & Food, Environmental Management Branch, Government of Ontario
The agreement provides a right to be consulted for any large consumptive takings or exports from the basin, and a right to be heard. It provides certain legal remedies. It would not constitute a veto power, but it does allow you to be heard. It's a reciprocal process, so each of the states and the two provinces have granted that privilege to each other, to act in the best interests of the watershed.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
Have each of the provinces and the states granted that to each other?
4:30 p.m.
Director, Ministry of Agriculture & Food, Environmental Management Branch, Government of Ontario
Yes, of the Great Lakes states.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON
So if Michigan, for instance, didn't like what was proposed here, does it have a right to be consulted?
4:30 p.m.
Director, Ministry of Agriculture & Food, Environmental Management Branch, Government of Ontario
It has a right to be consulted, and be heard, and given a legal standing in the process. The process varies for each jurisdiction.
