Evidence of meeting #37 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sahtu.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
You mentioned that you would of course have liked to see more land in the park but signed on to this agreement anyway. Can you tell me what benefits you see coming out of this park as it is currently being legislated that caused you to sign on, even though you'd rather have more land in it? What do you see the benefits as being?
You didn't just say “No, forget it.” You said that this is good to have. I'd like to hear from you what benefits you're expecting.
4:50 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
Well, we've always wanted to have a bigger land base for the park, because it gives us more protections. I see the benefit of having it there so that there are more benefits for the aboriginals in respect to having land set aside for future trapping, hunting, and fishing. Because of development happening around us, we were hoping to have more lands in the area, but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way. We accepted what we have now, because we still get all of the benefits that come out it. That hope was more for protecting the land for future hunters and trappers.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Okay. That's really what I wanted to get at, that as you said, you still get the benefits that come out it. One benefit is the protection of these lands for future hunters and trappers. Isn't that right?
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
As I understand it, there are some other benefits as well that come out of this agreement. Can you expand on those?
4:50 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
Well, there are any employment or business opportunities. We also have the right to have licences put aside for the landowners to do river rafting, for example, or naturalist lodges. We have those set aside and we have the first opportunity within our agreements. Everything we did there was for the first opportunity for our members.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Very good.
Do you think this park and this legislation may provide a boost to tourism into the area?
4:55 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
I believe it will, because there's a road coming in already from the other side, from Nahanni. Nahanni is quite well known and quite well used, I believe, right now. This Is just an extension of that.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
This brings me to another question, if I have time. I was quite taken with an expression you used when you were talking about some of the roads into this area. The phrase I noted that you said was that it shows that conservation and resource extraction can be good neighbours.
Can you expand a little on what you meant by that?
4:55 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
I didn't say “intend” to be good neighbours, I said that this shows that we're able to work with industry and conservation. We have a road going right through our park. We're able to have a say in what goes on with it. We're also able to take advantage of having the road there to get in more easily to take advantage of the area, because we're so far away from it.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Stephen Woodworth Conservative Kitchener Centre, ON
Would I be correct to say that this creates a good balance between conservation and resource extraction?
4:55 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
Yes, definitely. I've been involved with this for 25 years now, and I've been always trying to get a balance for our people. We know that development wants to happen in here. We know that some of our people want development to happen. We also know, listening with the other ear, that we have members out there who would like to continue to practise their traditional ways.
We try to make that balance, and thanks to Parks Canada and the leadership that.... You know, they were able to come up with something that allows them to do all those things in the park.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT
Good afternoon, Mr. Norwegian and Ms. Blondin-Andrew. It's great to have you here speaking to this bill. The work you've done to bring it to this point is remarkable. I think, in a way, it's a gift of the Sahtu people to the people of Canada. I think any national park that takes up and is engaged in the comprehensive land claims of a region is.... It comes from the people of that region, so I thank you for that, for doing that work, and we look forward to that.
I'm always concerned to ensure that there's a return, that the Government of Canada lives up to its promises on implementation. We have an implementation coalition here in Ottawa among settled land claims dealing with trying to get done some of those things that the government has promised. We need to ensure that Parks Canada is ready and willing to do the things they've said they're going to do in terms of the facilities, the staffing, and the opportunities you have.
How do both of you feel about the progress with Parks Canada in those areas, on the types of things that will add to your community?
4:55 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
I'm actually pretty impressed with the way it's going right now. They're already starting to put their infrastructure in the community. They have staff hired here already. They're starting to implement the training programs available for members. They have someone locally hired running the office at this time.
I'm pretty impressed with the way things are going.
4:55 p.m.
Chairperson, Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated
I'm very encouraged by Parks Canada. If you take Nahanni National Park and also Wood Buffalo National Park, we should be heartened by the fact that they have been, I believe, very well served. I believe those parks are world-renowned. Their facilities have been very good. I've been in and out of the offices, and actually in both the parks themselves, and if we use them as a measure, I'm sure Nááts’ihch’oh will do very well.
I believe one of the other MPs asked about tourism. As you probably well know, Mr. Bevington, canoeing trips start right at the mouth of Nááts’ihch’oh and they go down. Those trips down the Nahanni or the trips on the rivers, the Keele and Natla, are very well connected to these areas as well. O'Grady Lake is another place that's just unbelievable. It has a treasure trove of animals, moose and other species.
I'm very encouraged that the government will do the right thing. I'm not worried about it. My job with SSI is implementation. I know all the trials and tribulations of a lack of resources and the troubles in trying to get something like land claims implemented, but this is a chewable bite-size, I think, that Parks Canada can handle.
5 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT
Well, we in the opposition have put up the fact that we'll support this bill and move it forward in a very timely fashion, because we know this is what we've been offered.
With regard to the Sahtu Secretariat, I know that Mr. Norwegian spoke to the boundary. Did the Sahtu Secretariat expect that the boundary would be larger as well, and were you disappointed that it had been reduced somewhat?
5 p.m.
Chairperson, Sahtu Secretariat Incorporated
Well you know, these things are the art of the possible. Both Rocky and I are old hands at what we do. Rocky knows from his work and I know from my previous incarnation as an MP that when you're negotiating, there is an opening and there is a closing, and there is the art of the possible.
We knew at that point that no amount of pushing would get us more, so I think the suggestion by Mr. Norwegian to continue the extension onward indefinitely and to open up negotiations to expand the park are good ones.
We wanted more, but we know when we're going to have to find other means to achieve our goals. I would say that you don't get everything, but you can get a lot of things if you work together. We feel we did the best job we could with our elders and with our leaders to make this happen. I don't think there was any more room, because at one point the negotiations and the pushing are over, and if you've been around for a while, you know when that happens.
5 p.m.
NDP
Dennis Bevington NDP Northwest Territories, NT
The question I have is for Mr. Norwegian.
You talked about the fact that you're very much supportive of the mining development. When you looked at the previous larger boundary, did you think it was going to be an impediment on resource development in that area, or did you find that it was probably a balance that could be put in place?
5 p.m.
President, Tulita Renewable Resources Council
When we first started, it was more that the government accepted the grandfathered clause, and once we were dealing with that, we knew other development was going to try to stop what we were doing. But we kept pushing on and we accepted Selwyn, because they were there. They had a grandfathered clause in there already.
I kind of expected that, and I was more or less working towards getting that balance for both parties.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Harold Albrecht
Thank you very much.
We're going to move to Mrs. Ambler for the next seven minutes.