Environment Committee on Nov. 17th, 2014

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

That's the process we go through in a consultation. We put submissions forward. We seek the feedback of organizations. Some people spoke against and some people spoke...in this particular case, of the 1,603, 60 didn't....

The other point I want to raise here is that in soliciting the public's comments on the three boundary options, Parks Canada was very clear and told the public that it's not a vote; it's a discussion. It's also clear that it is unlikely that the final park boundaries will look exactly like the options that have been presented. It is not just public consultation that determines the final boundary for the national park. For the Nááts’ihch’oh, consideration was also given to the views of the Government of the Northwest Territories, the results of the mineral and energy resource assessments, and the strategic values of that.

All of these were considered and the boundary was changed to add a 20 square kilometre extension to the O'Grady Lake area at the request of the Sahtu Dene and Métis. The Sahtu Dene and Métis also supported the extension to the O'Grady Lake area, so these were all factored into making the determination of the boundaries.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

You had a process known as MERA.

Were the recommendations that came from that process made public?

[Rob Prosper, Vice-President, Protected Areas Establishment and Conservation, Parks Canada]

No.

The Senior MERA Committee is an organization that has been in place since the late seventies, I believe. It's the process by which the recommendations for a boundary for a national park, when it's being established, go through.

It has representation from—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Okay, but were those recommendations made public? That was my question.

[Rob Prosper]

No, they were not.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

Why were they not made public?

We don't know what recommendations were made through this process.

[Rob Prosper]

I'll maybe fast-forward to the end of the process.

The participants include senior officials from the three territories, as well as ADM levels from a number of federal government departments. The recommendation that is developed through many years of consultation is brought forward as a recommendation by the chair of the Senior MERA Committee, who works with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, AANDC. That constitutes advice to the minister of AANDC for the decision on what lands to transfer from AANDC's control to a national park.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Northwest Territories, NT]

When it comes to resources for this park, this is very interesting to all of us, of course, because the first nations who have agreed to the park want to see economic opportunities come out of this.

We've seen in the case of the Nahanni expansion that there has been a very slow process to establish the opportunities that were outlined by Mr. Prentice when he was the environment minister. We're seven years into that process and still without a visitor centre in the Nahanni. That is a real failure on the part of everyone. I'm not saying that the government is solely to blame, but certainly the government had made assurances that this would go ahead.

Are you in a better position to get this capital program going in the Tulita region than you have been in the Fort Simpson area for the Nahanni park? Is this process going to move ahead? Do you have the agreements in place with the Sahtu Dene to accomplish what you've laid out?

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Your time is up. I want to give a chance to respond, so we have to come to the end of the question.

Does anyone want to respond to that?

[Kevin McNamee, Director, Parks Establishment, Parks Canada]

First of all, Mr. Bevington, we are currently in negotiations with the Dehcho First Nations to work out an agreement. The difference between the Dehcho and the Sahtu is that the Sahtu has a settled land claim agreement that directs us to negotiate an agreement prior to establishment. We do not have a similar arrangement in the Dehcho because the land claim has not been settled. We are, nevertheless, working on an agreement with Dehcho.

We do have a capital plan allocation budget of $12.9 million for Nahanni. That is in place, and as part of those negotiations we are in discussions with the Dehcho about facilities in Fort Simpson and Nahanni Butte. In fact, we have re-established a temporary office in Nahanni Butte.

We have also staffed 31 positions in the current Nahanni National Park Reserve, of which 25 positions are staffed, and of those, 60% are to Dehcho beneficiaries. We're looking for further additional staff, and we're hoping to be in a position to hire Dehcho.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you very much.

We went well beyond our time on that one, but we needed to get to the answer.

We'll move now to Mr. Toet, for seven minutes, please.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

It's always great to have the minister with us at committee, so welcome again.

Minister, there were some questions regarding the area and the boundaries, etc. You mentioned in your opening remarks that the boundaries of this park have changed since it was originally announced in 2012.

I am wondering if you could explain to us how and why the boundary has changed since the 2012 announcement was made by the Prime Minister.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Absolutely.

Our government added a 20 square kilometre extension to the national park reserve on the south shore of O'Grady Lake. This is in response to the request from the Tulita, as well as the Sahtu Dene and Métis groups.

O'Grady Lake is one of only two places in the northern part of the watershed where float planes can land and take off with parties of hikers and their gear. Including O'Grady Lake in the park will encourage more visitors to come to the park. They can use it as a base camp for wilderness hiking, increasing economic and employment prospects for aboriginal people related to outfitting and guiding visitors.

The Sahtu Dene and Métis, signators to the impact and benefit plan, requested and were consulted about the changes, and there was unanimous support for the addition of the O'Grady Lake extension.

In addition, a small one-kilometre archaeological site in the Mackenzie Mountains was excluded from the park, also at the request of the Northwest Territories government.

Those were the two changes that we have made to the boundaries since 2012.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You touched on it a little bit in your last answer, Minister, but we all know and we see on the map that this park is located in a fairly remote location in the Northwest Territories. One of the questions which I think a lot of people would have is, how visitors are going to be able to access this park.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Visitors can access the park from several communities: Tulita, Norman Wells, and Fort Simpson in the Northwest Territories, as well as Ross River and Watson Lake on the Yukon side.

The park is primarily a fly-in park, although road access from the Yukon is being explored.

Visitors will continue to travel from Moose Ponds down the South Nahanni River into the Nahanni National Park Reserve.

Close coordination between Nááts'ihch'oh and Nahanni will be required to ensure that permitting and travel planning are dealt with consistently and efficiently between the two parks.

Park operation got under way this year. Visitors were able to book river trips through Nahanni National Park Reserve, which has an established reservation system. Licences for air charter services are also being set up in the interim. Several charter aircraft services can provide sightseeing tours for visitors as the work continues.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

I have one final question. We have the establishment of the Nááts'ihch'oh national park reserve through this act, which is great. Can you tell us what the government has accomplished in expanding the Parks Canada network to ensure some of Canada's most pristine and sensitive areas, which as we know are protected in this park, are also protected for future generations?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I touched on this a little bit. Since 2006, our government has established six new protected areas, protecting just over 49,000 square kilometres, including the Lake Superior National Marine Conservation Area, which is the world's largest freshwater marine protected area dedicated to national conservation, as well as the Sable Island National Park Reserve.

This past summer our government also brought legal protection to 20,000 square kilometres of northern lands within Auyuittuq National Park in Nunavut.

Our government has also taken action that will eventually result in the addition of over 100,000 square kilometres, such as a proposed national park reserve in the Mealy Mountains of Labrador.

Those are examples of initiatives our government has taken in terms of protecting areas of land in Canada since 2006.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

You have a minute and three-quarters left.

[Lawrence Toet, Conservative, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Great.

In your opening remarks, Minister, you touched on the benefits of the creation of this national park reserve for first nations. Can you please explain some of the benefits of this national park reserve for the first nations in the region?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Absolutely.

The benefits in the creation of this or expansion of the park will flow from the impact and benefit agreement signed in March 2012 by Canada, as well as the Sahtu Dene and first nations of the Tulita district. The benefits include employment: eight full-time positions, which include six permanent jobs and two training positions for the first five years in order to develop the necessary skills. Parks Canada offices and the visitor reception centre will be located in Tulita.

There will be additional economic opportunities for the Sahtu Dene, including contracting provisions and a $50,000 scholarship fund to benefit members of the Tulita, Fort Norman Métis and Norman Wells land corporations pursuing post-secondary education, providing more opportunities for beneficiaries to pursue careers for direct jobs in the park.

A cooperation management committee has also been established for the park. Nááts'ihch'oh national park reserve also protects land that has been travelled and used by traditional harvesters for many, many years. That will now be protected for the benefit of the Dene in the Tulita district. As well, the aboriginal people will continue to exercise their traditional harvest of the wildlife as well as the plants in the park.

In summary, those are some of the initiatives that have been agreed to under the impact and benefit agreement for the benefit of the Sahtu Dene individuals.

[The Chair, Conservative, Harold Albrecht]

Thank you, Mr. Toet.

Thank you, Minister.

We'll move to Mr. McKay, for seven minutes, please.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

What's the difference between a park and a park reserve?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

The National Parks Act provides for the establishment of two categories of national parks: national parks as well as reserves. The national park reserve designation is used when there are outstanding claims by aboriginal groups regarding aboriginal rights and title and these claims have been accepted by Canada for negotiation. Once the claim is settled, the agreement negotiated within the relevant aboriginal organization is established, and the land can be converted from a park reserve status to a national park. As well, a national park reserve is operated and run in the same manner as a national park, but while the park is located in the Sahtu settlement area, the Kaska Dena Council asserts claim of rights and title over a substantial portion. It's a holding place until the settlement of a land claims agreement.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Is there a material difference in how this land would be administered until the aboriginal claims are settled?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

No.