Environment Committee on May 22nd, 2018

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

It's another amendment brought forward by Ms. Stubbs from Lakeland. It's that Bill C-69, in clause 10, be amended by adding after line 10 on page 121 the following:

(78.1) Despite section 78, the Minister must not enter into any arrangement under section 77 devolving any powers, duties or functions given to the Minister or the Governor in Council in respect of any final decision or order.

I think you all know where I'm going with this. It clarifies that, regardless of the regulations set by the Governor in Council in regard to the ability of the minister to enter into arrangements with indigenous governing bodies, and to authorize those indigenous governing bodies to exercise power under this act, the minister does not devolve any powers in respect of any final decisions. I want to make sure that's clear.

The bill, as currently written, provides that the minister may enter into arrangements with these indigenous governing bodies for the purpose of carrying out this act, may authorize those bodies to exercise powers or perform duties and functions under this act in accordance with regulations governing these arrangements.

This simply limits the ability of the minister to delegate her final decision-making powers. I think that's reasonable.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

That's clear.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Can I make a comment on this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Be very quick.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

The federal government has devolved powers in the past. When I was assistant deputy in the Yukon, we were devolving forestry. They've devolved oil and gas. This would preclude any future devolving of any powers to do with energy to a first nation government, and that would include for a renewable energy project or for all kinds of things. I think, then, for that reason, this would tie the hands of the government forever into the future to never devolve any of its powers under a first nation final agreement.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

With respect, that is simply not the case. The powers that are exercised under this act, once it is proclaimed to be in force, are the minister's powers. They are subject to any agreements that are negotiated between the Government of Canada and our first nations. That doesn't change. This simply clarifies that in exercising her powers under this act, as they presently are—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

[Inaudible—Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Give him a chance to finish.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

—there is no right to devolve those powers under this act as the minister is exercising his or her powers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Let's go to a vote. I think we know what the issues are here.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 3)

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We're going to go on to NDP-76.

Linda, go ahead.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

This adds the subject areas the regulator must study to include “the impacts of the production, distribution and use of energy on climate and”—the reverse—“the impacts of a changing climate on the production, distribution and use of energy”. It also adds consideration to “Canada's transition to a low carbon economy”, which the current government has committed to.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

All those in favour of NDP-76?

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We're going to PV-110.

Ms. May, go ahead.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think that, given the critical importance of climate questions to all governments around the world, having an energy regulator that doesn't have a specific responsibility to maintain ongoing awareness, review, research, etc., of how their areas of energy regulation relate to climate is a big gap. Where the section is called “Study and review”, the government directs that the regulator must study and keep under review matters relating to exploration and supply, essentially, and the safety and security of regulated facilities, but nothing as to the impact of the regulated industries on the threat of the climate crisis.

Again, I do think we should aspire to Canada's energy regulator having the kind of robust analysis and comprehensive review that now happens under the International Energy Agency. The International Energy Agency isn't a replacement for UNEP, the United Nations Environment Programme. It doesn't replace the secretariat of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. However, it recognizes that critical research and analysis done by the International Energy Agency informs public policy all around the world, and I think our Canadian energy regulator should reflect domestically what international energy agencies conduct internationally.

This is a minor amendment to address a very large gap.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

We're moving on to PV-111.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Again, this is relating to what the regulator will submit to the minister, reports of what the regulator considers to be necessary or in the public interest, looking at traditional—I have to say—20th-century views of what it regulates. I am suggesting that we insert proposed paragraph (c) so that the the regulator also considers what is required for:

the Government of Canada to meet its environmental obligations and its commitments in respect of climate change.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Thank you very much.

[Ed Fast, Conservative, Abbotsford, BC]

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Now we're on PV-111.1, Ms. May.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you.

This is another way of dealing with the same problem by deleting lines 14 to 16 on page 122. The effect is that the regulator is not prevented from publishing reports. So, it's not the same thing. I mean, it's public information as opposed to just climate information.

The goal here—perhaps the Conservatives will support me on this—is to ensure that the regulator has not just a possibility, but the duty, to publish without the minister's consent. We want a body that's open and transparent. Why should a body like the Canadian energy regulator need the minister's consent to publish its reports?