Evidence of meeting #114 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was see.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Olivier Champagne  Legislative Clerk, House of Commons
Jean-Sébastien Rochon  Counsel, Department of Justice
Christine Loth-Bown  Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
Brent Parker  Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
Jeff Labonté  Assistant Deputy Minister, Major Projects Management Office, Department of Natural Resources
Terence Hubbard  Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We're now on NDP-65.

6:50 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

We are at line 31 of page 97. We would be adding in a new paragraph:

(e) to ensure that a healthy and stable climate is maintained for future generations.

This, as Ms. May has said, amends the purpose of the act to include dealing with climate change as part of the operations of the CER. As the Pembina Institute have said to us, “A 21st-century energy regulator must integrate climate change considerations throughout its functions and activities.” They have also said, “ This is necessary to ensure that we meet our commitments under the Paris Agreement and is imperative to protect Canada's long-term interests in a decarbonizing world.”

As we hear the Minister of Environment and Climate Change say in the House ad nauseam, we must balance economic development and environmental protection, including taking action on reducing carbon. That is exactly what this provision does, to ensure that a healthy and stable climate is maintained for future generations in decisions by the CER.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Mr. Fast.

6:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Madam Chair, I'd be very surprised if the Liberal members of this committee voted in favour. It has been made pretty clear by the United Nations and also by the Auditor General that this government will not be meeting its Paris obligations and that there's a huge gap.

I'll understand why the Liberals will not support this amendment.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Shall the amendment carry?

Mr. Fast would like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We're now going to amendment LIB-82.

Mr. Fisher.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Madam Chair, this is another housekeeping amendment, which needs to be changed here. It was changed earlier in the document as well.

It takes line 29 on page 98 and changes it from “pipelines and abandoned offshore facilities;” to just “facilities;”. Apparently it was changed in another part, but the drafters felt that it was an error that should still be corrected.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

If I understand this properly, it takes line 28, which says, “as well as abandoned” and then line 29, which says “pipelines and abandoned offshore facilities;” and we're taking out “pipelines and abandoned offshore” and just saying “facilities”.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

That's almost exactly what I just said.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I was just making sure I got it right.

Shall the amendment carry?

Mr. Fast would like a recorded vote.

6:55 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Can I just ask a question about that?

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Well, we're into the vote now.

6:55 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

A big controversy in my province is abandoned wells. Are you saying then also that the federal government would have responsibility for abandoned wells?

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

It says abandoned facilities. It's a broader term.

Linda, we already started the vote, so let's finish the vote.

6:55 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I guess it's going to be included. I'm happy to hear that.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 9 ; nays 0 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Let's move along.

On amendment PV-88, go ahead, Ms. May.

6:55 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Chair, we're still in part 1 of the second part of this bill. The mandate for the Canadian energy regulator is being set out in bullet form.

With this amendment, I am suggesting an insertion, proposed paragraph (d.1), such that the mandate of the Canadian energy regulator include:

(d.1) ensuring that decisions, orders, and recommendations referred to in paragraphs (a), (c) and (d) respect the Government of Canada's environmental obligations, its commitments in respect of climate change, and the rights of the Indigenous peoples of Canada as recognized and affirmed by section 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 and by the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples;

It's an extremely helpful subset of the kind of framework for decision-making that our energy regulator should have in the 21st century, in that it's mindful of indigenous rights, mindful of environmental obligations of the Government of Canada, and mindful particularly of its climate obligations.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Shall the amendment carry?

Mr. Fast would like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 7; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We now move to amendment NDP-66. Just to be clear, amendment PV-89 cannot be moved if this is moved, because there will be a line conflict.

Linda.

6:55 p.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

We're at the same place in the bill, page 99, line seven.

The proposal is to replace clause (e) with the following, so that the regulator's mandate would include:

(e) advising and reporting on energy matters, including renewable energy, energy efficiency, the impacts of the production, distribution and use of energy on climate, the impacts of a changing climate on the production, distribution and use of energy, as well as Canada's transition to a low carbon economy;

Again, this was brought forward by the Pembina Institute. As they stated, the regulator right now does not have any explicit mandate to report or advise on Canada's supposed transition to a low-carbon economy. It's just the same old, same old oil and gas, etc. They also add that accurate reporting on the impacts on climate from the production, distribution, and use of energy will help Canada meet its international commitments on climate.

What this is doing is moving the Canadian energy regulator into the 21st century and beyond by actually finally defining energy as more than fossil fuels.

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Shall the amendment carry?

May 22nd, 2018 / 7 p.m.

Conservative

Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB

I'd like a recorded vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1)

7 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We're on PV-89.

Ms. May.

7 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Chair, at first blush, my amendment may look to be virtually identical to the one you just defeated, but it does include other concepts, which is, of course, why it would have merely been a line conflict had the NDP motion passed.

My proposed subparagraph (e) for the mandate of a CER includes to advise and report not only on energy matters, including renewable energy and energy efficiency, but also on how we're doing in reducing carbon, and what the climate impacts are related to production, distribution, and use of energy and the impacts of a changing climate on the very industry that is being regulated.

This takes, in my view, the Canadian energy regulator into a mandate that's much more similar to what we get from the International Energy Agency. That agency provides useful information for world governments on the topics that you see here. I think it would really strengthen the Canadian energy regulator were it doing the same kind of analytical work that we get from the International Energy Agency.