Evidence of meeting #114 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was see.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Could I ask the officials to comment on whether this may be ultra vires the federal government's constitutional authority?
Counsel, Department of Justice
If the physical activity is carried out on lands that may not be federal lands, but are otherwise regulated by federal authority, I think this would be within the realm of Parliament to regulate.
It would be within Parliament's power to regulate, but if you'll allow me a few seconds, perhaps, I could firm up that position.
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
In addition to that, adequate provisions for federal lands—as laid out in the legislation—are to fill a gap where there is no other jurisdictional legislation that exists.
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
We want to make sure that activities on federal lands.... Other activities are regulated often by other jurisdictions. The attempt of these provisions is to ensure that all activities that occur on federal lands—because there is no other jurisdiction that is responsible for them.... We want to make sure that we are providing the necessary assurances in those areas.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I'm not reassured by that because this part talks about projects carried out on federal lands, and it talks about projects outside Canada. It, therefore, should also deal with projects that are not on federal lands. Why are we excluding that huge category of lands where, frankly, most of the federal assessments occur, or used to occur before they were all exempted?
Vice-President, Policy Development Sector, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
The tool that's being used to determine what activities require a federal impact assessment is the project list, the designated project list. We currently have a discussion paper out on the criteria for determining what projects will be subject to this act.
Then, in addition to those projects, there are also responsibilities for federal authorities for projects that take place on federal lands, or outside Canada, and that are run by federal authorities. An example would be development projects outside Canada.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Well, I'm not convinced that this amendment is the way to go. If you read it, this is not only about federally regulated activity on non-federal lands. It's also about the federal government financing a private project, say, within a municipality or within a province. Again to Mr. Rochon, is it within the power of the federal government to designate this as a project?
What I'm saying is that there's a project that a municipality or a province undertakes. It just so happens that the federal government has agreed to finance part of it. Does that now allow it to fall within the ambit of the federal government's jurisdiction?
Counsel, Department of Justice
If you allow it, Madam Chair, I will check my answer with some of my colleagues, but the federal government's power to spend money would be captured as part of the federal government's jurisdiction. It would be subject to any rules we want to make and impose on it in the legislation.
If you give me a few seconds, I'll consult with my colleagues here.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
With the committee's agreement, we'll just stand this one down and move to the next one.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I'm guessing your folks are going to vote against it. If they are, we might as well just vote on it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Let's get the answer. We put it to them. I'd like them to have the chance to answer the question properly.
Counsel, Department of Justice
Simply to restate what I have just said, this would be part of the federal government's spending power. Like any other government decision that is within our federal jurisdiction, which includes federal spending power, that could be the subject of an environmental assessment if Parliament so chooses.
This is the granting of money, whether it's to a municipal government, a foreign organization, or any other regulated federal entity. It could be the subject of federal impact assessment.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I understand what the exceptions are. I'm just asking why you are not also applying those to non-federal lands.
You're essentially saying that an authority can't carry out the project if they've given money or will partly authorize the project. Why do you not also have a provision related to a project on non-federal lands? It seems logical. You're completely missing that third category of where projects can occur: federal lands, non-federal lands, and foreign lands, but you don't have the non-federal lands.
Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
I'll just make one comment on it.
Like Christine noted earlier, the project list drives where impact assessment happens. On federal lands, there's no provincial oversight. Recognizing that, this act puts in place provisions for an assessment process. It selects federal lands as being the appropriate place to do that, because there is that gap. The quality assurance program that we have run on those particular types of projects—we've done that for a number of years—indicated that 94% of those types of projects have minor or insignificant impacts. Those that do have higher potential for impact are being considered for the project list. All those other ones would go through this alternate assessment process that focuses on environment in federal lands.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
So you're saying in some cases the authority can run the environmental impact assessment instead of the agency or a panel, but they are completely different factors.
Director, Legislative and Regulatory Affairs Division, Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency
That's correct.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I would like a recorded vote.
(Amendment negatived: nays 8; yeas 1 [See Minutes of Proceedings])