Evidence of meeting #15 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was protected.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I am getting to those strategies. You still haven't gotten to the actions. I got the dikes and the rest, but then you are talking about developing strategies. You want $30 million, but you haven't quite gotten to how you would use it.
12:10 p.m.
Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada
In the case of wetlands, for example, we are often installing plate-steel fabricated water-control structures, so we have to buy those on the commercial market. We have to install them, and we have to hire people to install them. Ducks Unlimited generally works in a supervisory, planning type of role.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
You're talking extension. It's not new. It's continuing to develop the processes you have now and extending them.
12:10 p.m.
Director, Regional Operations, Eastern Region, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Right, and doing them differently so we can accommodate some of these other benefits that we're trying to accrue on the lands.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
When you mention inventory, I think that's what we've heard from a number of different witnesses already is the sense that we don't know the inventory here or there, and everybody has a piece.
How could you contribute to that inventory process? Do you have the ability to do that?
12:10 p.m.
Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Definitely. We have an in-house geographic information systems group that does wetland mapping right across the country. We have generated polygon-based maps of where wetlands are in Canada. We have a pretty good idea in certain regions of the country where those habitats lie.
Certainly, we work in partnership with Environment and Climate Change Canada primarily with the Canadian Wildlife Service to build that inventory, to build the products and the tools that inform effective decision-making.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
One of the things we first hear when one organization has it in their IT is that there's no transferability. That's a huge issue if you're talking multiple organizations. You have yours. Do you believe it's transferable?
12:10 p.m.
Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Generally speaking it is. Through the North American waterfowl management plan, we have agreements with landowners and with the crown to protect and restore our wetlands across the continent, and we share data and information.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I'm talking the IT inventory. Can you transfer the database in your IT program to another one? Do you believe...?
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
Okay. Great.
Eleanor, you said you were looking for federal coordination. Is that the role you're looking for from the federal government?
12:10 p.m.
Alex MacDonald Senior Conservation Manager, Species at Risk, Urban Nature and Protected Areas, Nature Canada
Thank you very much, Mr. Shields.
The coordination we're looking for there is an opportunity for the federal government to provide leadership on identifying a strategy for a national framework for terrestrial protected areas. We have a national marine protected areas framework established.
There are organizations that could feed into such a process. For instance, one of our national reporting systems, the conservation areas reporting and tracking system, is managed by the Canadian Council on Ecological Areas. There's an opportunity for the federal government to use some of these existing tools and provide that leadership and oversight.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
I would suggest you talk to Ducks about visibility. I seem to donate a lot of money to Ducks. They are very visible. We all know them. If you have a problem, they know how to market.
That's good enough.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you to our witnesses. We appreciate the flexibility today. I know it has not been that simple.
I want to go right back to Nature Canada on that issue of coordination, but I would invite comments also from DU on this.
We've had discussions around coordination of protected areas in all of their different guises across the country: federal, provincial, indigenous. I think there's an emerging recognition that we don't have a handle on all of it and we need a better way, not just for the purposes of percentage bean-counting, but with a view to ensuring we have the highest possible quality conservation as per the Aichi targets.
What comments would you have at this institutional level that would help guide us as we recommend where the federal government should help lead the country?
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Nature Canada
I think the Aichi targets give urgency to the issue, but I would urge a longer-term, more substantial vision for what Canada could be in terms of protected areas.
I think the role of the federal government is one of developing a vision for Canada within international frameworks and on the national stage, but I would urge you to work with the provincial governments and nation-to-nation with indigenous governments. I think that provides the real opportunity here.
12:15 p.m.
Director, Regional Operations, Eastern Region, Ducks Unlimited Canada
I think there are also opportunities to be creative and to think about what we are actually trying to accomplish as an end game. Are there many different tools that we can bring to bear that'll provide some level of protection, recognizing that the longevity of some of those protections might not be as long as we'd like but they provide steps along the road to ultimately attaining conservation on the landscape? For example, we often sign 25-year agreements with private landowners to do conservation work on their lands. It provides a short-term protection, but it's part of the change in the conservation of a landscape. It doesn't help us with our overarching targets, but there are many tools like this that get us down the road towards conservation.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
I have a quick point of clarification on the last aspect.
When Ducks Unlimited uses money accorded to it through the NACP, does it actually use it, in some cases, for 25-year protection plans, which then subsequently have to be renewed, that aren't permanent, if you will? It's a simple yes or no on that one.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Okay. Would it be possible to let our committee know what percentage of those protections of the monies you invest through the NACP are permanent, versus those that are impermanent in some way, shape, or form?
12:15 p.m.
Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada
We could get you a number. Typically, a private landowner is a little more reticent to go into permanent long-term protection.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Yes, that makes sense.
This one goes to Ducks Unlimited.
Mr. Brennan, we've had discussions about this previously. As you know, I agree wholeheartedly that the entire initiative around conservation has to be conceived as an infrastructure issue. You stated earlier that we can't keep pace with the level of habitat destruction that is ongoing. I think that's a statement worth noting. As we look forward to achieving greater protection, could you speak a little more to how you would like the federal government and other governments to use infrastructure funding to achieve conservation benefit?
12:15 p.m.
Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada
I think the most obvious way to do that would be to look at the way in which wetlands retain water on the Canadian landscape. There's been an awful lot of wetland loss in areas that are certainly susceptible and prone to flooding. We have a recommendation n the current year's Green Budget Coalition recommendations that suggest that a portion of the green infrastructure money should be allocated towards natural or green solutions.
The scientific evidence demonstrates fairly clearly that there are opportunities to use wetlands to hold water back on the landscape, and therefore reduce the incidence of flooding. The most noteworthy study of late was what we refer to as the Smith Creek study. It was undertaken, using our GIS data, by scientists at the University of Saskatchewan. Professor John Pomeroy, who's the Canada research chair in water, undertook a study to look at what the impacts of wetland loss on the working landscape are. What he discovered was that the removal of wetlands on the Smith Creek watershed landscape increased water flows into creeks and feeder streams by over 30%—it's about 32%.
Certainly, by taking a look at the infrastructure tools at the government's disposal, we think you could certainly get a great bang for your buck, in that we have an opportunity to not only reduce the incidence of flooding, but to gain the biodiversity gains that you get from putting natural habitat back on the landscape as well.
