Evidence of meeting #15 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was protected.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rick Bates  Acting Chief Executive Officer and Executive Vice-President, Canadian Wildlife Federation
Ben Chalmers  Vice-President, Sustainable Development, Mining Association of Canada
Aran O'Carroll  Executive Director, Secretariat, Canadian Boreal Forest Agreement
Kimberly Lisgo  Conservation Planning Team Lead, Canadian Boreal Forest Agreement
Kate Lindsay  Director, Conservation Biology, Forest Products Association of Canada
James Brennan  Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Mark Gloutney  Director, Regional Operations, Eastern Region, Ducks Unlimited Canada
Eleanor Fast  Executive Director, Nature Canada
Alex MacDonald  Senior Conservation Manager, Species at Risk, Urban Nature and Protected Areas, Nature Canada

12:40 p.m.

Director, Government Affairs, Ducks Unlimited Canada

James Brennan

We would agree that it depends on the park that you're talking about. There are certainly opportunities in the north that perhaps would be categorized as low-hanging fruit because they're not in a settled or developed landscape. It really depends on the geography you're talking about.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB

On your travels across Canada, do you see any areas in our national parks that we possibly need to expand, not counting the ones I just mentioned, because of the demand on them by the public or other demands?

12:45 p.m.

Executive Director, Nature Canada

Eleanor Fast

There are particular national parks and national marine conservation areas that we would like to see created. They're in the process, particularly, the creation of the national park reserve in the south Okanagan and the national marine conservation area in the southern Strait of Georgia and Lancaster Sound. Those are particular areas that Nature Canada and many other organizations are very keen to see created.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB

They're all my old playgrounds. Thank you.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We are at 12:45. Does anybody want to add to that?

We'll go to questions then.

Mr. Fisher.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Darren Fisher Liberal Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Explain to me some of the differences between the wetlands that Ducks Unlimited was to protect and the wetlands that the federal government protects. Is there a significant difference in the use of those lands, the way they're taken care of, the way they're monitored?

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Order, please.

Mr. Gerretsen.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

I thought we were going to leave some time at 12:45.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

I was leaving that up to you if you wanted to bring something forward.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

I was waiting for the allotted time that you had set for committee business.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

All right then, have you something to put on the table?

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Yes, I'd like to table my motion.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Could you read your motion? Do you have it?

Mr. Cullen

12:45 p.m.

NDP

Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

If we are planning to go into committee business for the next 15 minutes, do you want to keep our witnesses here or do you want...?

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

If the committee business goes quickly, then we would go back to questioning, because people were concerned about not having enough time for questioning.

12:45 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

I'm not sure it's going to go fast because we have two motions to deal with.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

If that's the case and you're going to bring yours as well, then we should say thank you very much to our witnesses.

We appreciate all the time you spent. It was a bit of a challenge at the beginning, so thank you for your patience and thank you for sharing all of your knowledge with us.

Mr. Gerretsen, do you have your motion in front of you?

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

The clerk is distributing it and once it's around, I'll be happy to move it. Can we dispense or do you need it read out?

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

You'd better read it to get it into the record.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Chair, I move:

That, in relation to Orders of Reference from the House respecting Bills,

(a) the Clerk of the Committee shall, upon the Committee receiving such an Order of Reference, write to each Member who is not a member of a caucus represented on the Committee to invite those Members to file with the Clerk of the Committee, in both official languages, any amendments to the Bill, which is the subject of the said Order, which they would suggest that the Committee consider;

(b) suggested amendments filed, pursuant to paragraph (a), at least 48 hours prior to the start of clause-by-clause consideration of the Bill to which the amendments relate shall be deemed to be proposed during the said consideration, provided that the Committee may, by motion, vary this deadline in respect of a given Bill; and

(c) during the clause-by-clause consideration of a Bill, the Chair shall allow a Member who filed suggested amendments, pursuant to paragraph (a), an opportunity to make brief representations in support of them.

Madam Chair, I know that Ms. May is very much interested in speaking to this particular motion, so I would ask, through you, that the committee give consent to Ms. May to do that and if not, I'd be happy to put forward a motion to that affect.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

Do we have a challenge to give Ms. May three minutes to talk to this?

Ms. May.

May 10th, 2016 / 12:45 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Thank you. I appreciate the time to speak to this. Most people around this table—all the people around this table—are friends of mine, and this is both a parliamentary matter of principle and it's also intensely personal. This series of motions that are just being passed, I've been considering whether it will have an immediate effect on my health or merely take years off my life later, and I'm not saying this facetiously. I'm saying in all honesty that this is terrifying for me personally.

What we're facing here is a couple of fictions. The first fiction is that my friend Mark Gerretsen says this is his motion. I know he didn't write it. It was written under the PMO in the previous government. The second fiction is that parliamentary committees are the masters of their own proceedings. It stretches credulity to imagine that parliamentary committees, all of a sudden in the fall of 2013, all automatically adopted the same motion and that it has sprung into the mind of all parliamentary committees simultaneously in the spring of 2016 to do it again.

This is changing the way in which legislation goes through Parliament, changing parliamentary procedures without going through the trouble and the steps it takes to change Standing Orders and change rules. This is the last step required, if every parliamentary committee does this after every election in every session of Parliament. This is essentially taking report stage and making it an anachronistic redundancy, as opposed to being what it was historically, an opportunity for parliamentarians as a whole, not merely members of committees, to suggest amendments.

The brief history of this is that up until the year 2002, members of Parliament of all parties had the right to put forward amendments at report stage. As a result of a 1999 effort by the Alliance party at that time, more than 700 amendments to the Nisga'a treaty were put forward in an attempt to derail it at report stage. The party in power at that time, the former Liberal government of Jean Chrétien—Don Boudria as House leader—retreated to a long process. It took them a couple of years to actually change the parliamentary rules such that a member of Parliament who had an opportunity through their party to put forward amendments to a bill in committee had no such right to put forward further substantive amendments at report stage.

That created the unintended reality that the only members of Parliament with an opportunity to put forward substantive amendments at report stage were those who, again through an irregular process creating two tiers of members of Parliament, were in parties smaller than 12 or sitting as independents. We were the only ones who did have rights to put forward amendments at report stage.

The only remnant of what report stage has been historically, going back through Westminster parliamentary democratic history, was the ironic reality that only members in parties with fewer than 12 had rights to put forward amendments at report stage, because we'd had no opportunity in committee; hence the creation of a fake opportunity of running from committee to committee to put forward amendments, but having no right to move them—as you see in this motion, they're “deemed to have been moved”—having no right to vote on them, and having no right to do anything other than pursue a brief opportunity to make a representation in support of them.

The reality for me personally is that many times committees will be doing clause-by-clause consideration at the same time. I raced to the environment committee in the 41st Parliament with amendments to keep seismic testing out of Sable Island National Park and got there too late. My amendments had all been defeated because I was tied up in a different committee trying to put forward amendments on a different bill.

This creates a virtual impossibility for me personally. Now, I'm very well aware that you've all been told this has to be passed and has to be passed today. Earlier today, the national defence committee was told they had to pass it and had to pass it without giving me an opportunity to speak, because, to make my point, I was tied up with BillC-14, where I'd been summoned to the justice committee to do my amendments there.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

We've given you an opportunity to talk for three minutes. We are now at four. I'm sorry to have to cut you off. My apologies.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC

Madam Chair, just for the record, I'd be pleased to let her continue. I think this is an important issue for the committee to discuss.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte

What about the rest of the committee?

Are you all right with that?

We need to know how long. How much time do you—?