Environment Committee on May 10th, 2016

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

To build on that, what's the proper balance, in your opinion, of national parks versus the national wildlife areas?

[Alex MacDonald]

It's difficult in a country as large as Canada to give a simple answer to that. It's very case by case, I think, and certainly with the Northwest Territories protected areas strategy, we've seen a really great balance, I think, in terms of national parks, national wildlife areas, and territorially protected areas. Coming to the table is what works best for the communities involved and the communities who have the authority to make that decision.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I have a quick question for Mr. Gloutney.

You mentioned, if I understand correctly, that Ducks Unlimited owns some land but also leases some land. You were talking about 25-year leases that you do, or something that you could do. What percentage do you own versus lease? Would you answer that first?

[Mark Gloutney]

We don't really lease the land. We sign an agreement.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

You monitor it.

[Mark Gloutney]

We sign an agreement. There's no fiscal exchange. We have about half a million acres that we own, and 5.5 million acres that we have under agreement.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

So you have a much larger percentage under agreement.

Do you do any collaboration—and I guess this would go to either witness—with the provincial and/or municipal levels of government as well?

[Mark Gloutney]

Certainly. They are some of our core partners. We work with both those levels of government on a multitude of things.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

I'll share the rest of my time with Mr. Bossio.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Mr. Bossio, be quick.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

I applaud you on the Green Budget Coalition. I think it's a fantastic idea and a plan that combines resources. Have you thought of doing a protected lands coalition?

Once again, you could transfer those databases, which would assist in doing an inventory by combining the different organizations that are involved in protected lands, wildlife areas, or species at risk, and add more funding alternatives.

If you had to guestimate, what would be the percentage of lands today that are protected under those different associations?

[James Brennan]

We do collaborate extensively on conservation issues. Certainly, we have a long-standing partnership with groups like Nature Canada and the Nature Conservancy. I'm not sure I fully understood the second part of your question in terms of the percentages.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Right now we say we have 10% protected lands and we're trying to get to 17%. I wonder in that 10%.... From what I understand, those lands are not in that 10% today. Is there a guestimate as to type of percentage you would be looking at if you took into account the Nature Conservancy, Ducks Unlimited, and Nature Canada, etc.?

[James Brennan]

As I said before, if you were to take all of the privately conserved lands that are not currently accounted for or included in the national tracking, I think we're at about 10% or 11% towards the 17% goal and it would add another 1% to the sum total of lands conserved in Canada.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Is that just Ducks Unlimited, or is that Nature Conservancy—

[James Brennan]

That's all privately conserved lands.

[Mike Bossio, Liberal, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

It is 1%. Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

Mr. Eglinski.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you to our groups of witnesses.

There's been a lot of discussion about the lack of co-operation between the different agencies in dealing with our different lands. I want to fall back on the Aichi standards. I'll go to Nature Canada first. You've been around here for 75 years.

Do you understand the rules and guidelines of the Aichi agreement? Are you fairly familiar with them?

Can you tell me, travelling around Canada, taking into consideration Ducks Unlimited, taking in the private lands, taking in municipal infrastructure where they have large park areas, if we had a working agreement among the federal government, provincial governments, municipal governments, private individuals, private landholders, organizations such as yours, and organizations such as Ducks Unlimited to pull our resources together and come up with a standard by which people could maintain their parks, whether they're municipal, private, or federal, do you believe that we would be able to add a lot more land?

A lot of this land that's out there today that is parks or conservation areas are not being recognized. Do you think they would fit that category or could fit that category?

[Alex MacDonald]

If I can use an idiom, that's the $64,000 question.

Currently, in the guidance that's provided for the Aichi targets, and target 11 in particular, there is guidance for formal protected areas that are backed by legislation, and of course we've spoken about the other area-based conservation measures.

The guidance on the latter is still developing over time. Here in Canada, I think we've made significant progress towards determining what other types of areas can count. Certainly, as our colleagues at Ducks Unlimited have mentioned, in some cases private conservation lands held by NGOs could qualify.

In the case of other sites, like municipal parks and green spaces, things like that, the key question becomes whether or not conservation is the primary objective in their management, and if issues arise in land use or land management policies, whether or not conservation of nature takes precedence in those disputes.

These considerations are captured in the great decision screening tool that has been developed, and that we would encourage the federal government to look at and provide leadership on at a federal level. As well, indigenous conserved lands and a number of protected areas being established by aboriginal governments under land-use planning processes could be incorporated.

Right here in the national capital region, Gatineau Park is a great example. It's 360 square kilometres that could also count toward Aichi, again, if the conservation of nature were made paramount in its management and its management was backed by effective legislation to do so.

To answer your question, there is an opportunity to grow or to expand our protected areas estate in Canada using some of these other sites, but we need that federal leadership.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Federal legislation to pull the people together and come up with a standard.

[Alex MacDonald]

Exactly, and of course everyone agreeing to play. It would mean multiple jurisdictions, given the way that land is divided in Canada, of course.

[Jim Eglinski, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

My riding is Yellowhead, and I have all of Jasper National Park and half of Banff National Park, and Willmore Wilderness Park. I know the sites, and the land on each side of the parks. I've often thought that if we need to increase our parks we could expand the boundaries and just make them fatter. Am I out to lunch in thinking that? A lot of land on both sides of our national parks is basically uninhabited.

We have aboriginal communities. We have aboriginal communities that we want to work with to help the program. Knowing Canada as well as you do, as I hope you know it, do you think we could expand the boundaries? At some time we have to look at it, and maybe today is the time we look at expanding those boundaries before industry gets in there and starts to get a foothold.

[Alex MacDonald]

It's a very difficult question to answer. It varies case by case and there's no one answer that could be given.

[The Chair, Liberal, Deb Schulte]

What about Ducks Unlimited? Do they have a response?