Evidence of meeting #30 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Is there any oil and gas exploration going on now that you're aware of?
4:20 p.m.
National Conservation Biologist, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society
There's oil and gas exploration going on all around Sable Island, but not on Sable Island. In the past, there had been a number of wells that had been drilled on the island.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Okay. Thank you.
I'm going to go to Parks Canada.
Mr. Miller spoke a lot about some of the unique challenges that the east coast or the Maritimes face. One of the things we've been trying to get at in this committee is what the difference is throughout the geography of Canada. He made some good points about the amount of northern space that the rest of Canada might have, space that's not present in the Maritimes.
Can you further explore that thought and provide some input into what some more of those challenges might be in the Maritimes?
4:20 p.m.
Field Unit Superintendent Prince Edward Island, Parks Canada Agency
I can comment from the perspective of Prince Edward Island National Park.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
I'm talking about the establishment and management, and how that might differ in the Maritimes.
4:20 p.m.
Field Unit Superintendent Prince Edward Island, Parks Canada Agency
In terms of P.E.I., etc., most of these parks were created many years ago. Prince Edward Island was in 1937. It's a much different scenario for new parks that are being created now, and perhaps Kevin can expand on that a bit.
4:20 p.m.
Kevin McNamee Director, Protected Areas Establishment Branch, Parks Canada Agency
First of all, we consider the national parks system in Atlantic Canada complete. We've represented all of the regions.
To go back a bit, among the challenges we did face, a major one was that many indigenous groups did not want to engage with us, in particular in Labrador, until land claims were negotiated and resolved. Proposals were set aside until the modern-day treaties were reached with people. Probably the most significant challenge was to have that process play out.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
That process doesn't happen in other parts of the country.
4:20 p.m.
Director, Protected Areas Establishment Branch, Parks Canada Agency
It depends on the different parts of the country.
In British Columbia, you don't have the negotiation of treaties in the way you do in, say, Labrador.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Okay.
Ms. Jans, you said that Prince Edward Island National Park gets 450,000 visitors per year. Do you know how that compares to other national parks?
4:20 p.m.
Field Unit Superintendent Prince Edward Island, Parks Canada Agency
We're one of the most visited in terms of scale and size, absolutely.
What is kind of unique about us is that it's concentrated in a very short period of time, in the peak summer season.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
My question then is, how do you ensure a good balance between preservation and usage? If you're the smallest national park and you have such high usage, are you not concerned about preservation?
4:20 p.m.
Field Unit Superintendent Prince Edward Island, Parks Canada Agency
We're always concerned about preservation. It's one of the priorities.
The way we manage visitation is that we very carefully concentrate visitation in areas of the park where we can actively manage its use. We work very carefully to design infrastructure that's going to have a minimum impact. For example, we have dune crossings. Wherever we need to restore dunes, we've discovered that dunes are really quite resilient. If you close off a dune for a period of three years, you can actually build it back up. Where we find that there's degradation taking place, we'll close the dunes down, or if we've had a blowout because of a winter storm, we'll do the same thing.
It's mostly managing how the use is done by visitors.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
Just to play the devil's advocate to my own question, on the other side, do you find that those who are using the park are at a disadvantage now because of the protection?
4:20 p.m.
Field Unit Superintendent Prince Edward Island, Parks Canada Agency
No, not at all. What's wonderful is that we put a lot effort into outreach. We do involve community groups as well as part of that, and not just the visitors.
The visitors really care about these systems. When we close down a dune or we're trying to minimize the use of a dune by trails that are going over them and we explain why we're doing it, people tend to be very respectful. They care about it.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for coming out today. The information you have passed on has been very informative.
My question is for Dr. Anna Metaxas.
Just about every group that has come in here has talked about the time it takes for us to reach agreements to establish protected areas, to develop parks, to make changes within our national parks. People have talked about the coordination of multiple layers of government—whether provincial, federal or municipal— with first nations, industry, and community concerns, and the competing interests of different groups. We hear it quite often. One group will say one thing, and the next group that's here with us will say the next thing.
I notice, Dr. Metaxas, that you stated in recommendation number 2, “Counting towards the 10% and beyond”, that it “is very unlikely that Canada will meet the 10% target by 2020” and that the average is seven years to get something done.
Mr. Miller, you followed through on your seventh paragraph: “which can take a considerably longer time to do the necessary analyses and consultation”. Here we are again today, with another group saying exactly the same thing.
In looking at that—and it is a very big concern to me and I think to most of the people here, from watching faces as we hear the evidence—I think there is no one in this room who would say we would ever allow anything to be done without proper consultation and without looking into the scientific aspect and the cultural aspect and everything else, but can you tell me or recommend or suggest some way that we can do it better? How can we make it faster?
We are not going to reach our limits because we need to do the due diligence, but from your perspective, can you give us an idea of how we might be able to do it better or faster?
4:25 p.m.
Professor, As an Individual
I will not pretend to understand how the government works. I'm a scientist. I do not know how—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:25 p.m.
Professor, As an Individual
I'm hoping you can tell me how the government works.
I can give you a different example that is from the area in which I was involved this year, a fisheries closure under the sensitive benthic areas plan. I came off the ship in July 2014 with data, which I presented to DFO in the Maritimes and then analyzed and gave to DFO by 2015. The closure was in place by September 2016, so it was just over two years from the time I walked off that ship. It's a fisheries closure, which means it is a lot more flexible in closing but also in reopening.
There are a number of those areas, and those are the other measures that we talk about. I think we really have to look carefully at those measures, and if they are measures that are working well, that have been closed effectively and efficiently, we should perhaps change their designation and include them in the long-term plan.
On accelerating the legislation, I am afraid I cannot provide any comment.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jim Eglinski Conservative Yellowhead, AB
Mr. Miller, would you like to comment on that? I noticed it was part of your submission today, sir.
4:25 p.m.
National Conservation Biologist, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society
With regard to marine protected areas, an important interim step is the closures that Anna mentioned. That's a fairly quick way the government can act to ensure that the integrity of a particular site is maintained while the more lengthy process of marine protected area establishment occurs. That's a band-aid solution; it's not a fix to the problem.
Another thing the government could do is to do multiple sites at the same time. It takes almost as long to do one site as it would take to do five or six sites as a single patch. I think that's the direction that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is going in designing an MPA network plan as a whole.
I don't know any specifics on implementation, but one clear thing that the government could do would be to designate multiple sites at the same time.
