Evidence of meeting #39 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
What you're looking for is legislation that does it in a way that doesn't handicap the 99% more, because when you talk about the 20% investment, and the huge.... Those costs are going to come down and be passed on to the consumer at the bottom end.
Conservative
Martin Shields Conservative Bow River, AB
You don't want to handicap the 99%, but you want to find a way with this to increase that pressure on the 1%.
Senior Vice-President, Canadian Trucking Alliance
If I had to simplify it even more, I'd empower these wonderful people with laws to enforce, because right now they have no laws to enforce.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you.
I find Mr. Laskowski's testimony fascinating. I'm really enjoying it.
Please don't take my lack of questions as being a mark of disinterest.
I would simply like to ask for Environment Canada's one-minute response to what they're hearing today, when it's being asserted that there is rampant disrespect of Canada's laws by truckers.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
I think he's making reference to a law that currently isn't on the books and, as we had discussed even before we came into the room, certainly after engaging with the groups that create the regulations and after hearing these concerns, we'll be ready to enforce that which is ready to be enforced. In other words, the rule has to be in place, and what is specifically being referred to today actually is not yet.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you for correcting me on that.
I want to shift back to information regarding environmental enforcement. Unless the circumstances have changed since the time this article I co-wrote was published, unless something has been changed, there are three sources of information regarding enforcement: annual reports that are required by some environmental wildlife legislation; environmental notifications that are posted on the departmental website; and news releases and statements that provide further information regarding charges and convictions reported through environment notifications.
Are there any further sources? Has anything changed substantially?
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
There's the Environmental Offenders Registry, which is something that came out of the Environmental Enforcement Act. People who have been convicted of environmental crimes now go on an offenders registry. There is also the ATIP process. We process many, many access to information requests on an annual basis. You mentioned annual reports. What you're currently seeing is primarily statistical. There are ways to make that better in terms of storytelling and really describing our work better.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
I'm less focused on the storytelling aspect. I'm actually much more interested in the hard data being available to Canadians.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Okay.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Storytelling is a way for government to say we're doing a good job; trust us. I'm less interested in that.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Okay.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
What makes me most interested—and it doesn't matter if I run over time, because I have the next section—is the contrast between the information available in Canada and the information available in the United States. The question is, why aren't we like the U.S.?
Let me quickly describe the distinction between Canada and the U.S. We have those three sources of information plus an offenders' notification. There's an ATIP process. I think we all know what the commissioner has said about the weaknesses of our existing ATIP process and the commitments our government has made to reform that. In the U.S., the Environmental Protection Agency provides an easy-to-use website with quite comprehensive environmental enforcement information, almost always surpassing the minimum required by statute. It's called the Environmental Compliance History Online, ECHO, and it groups all enforcement information across statutes, the Clean Water Act, the Clean Air Act, the Safe Drinking Water Act, etc. and it's searchable by ZIP code, etc.
I'm curious as to why there is not such a system available to Canadians.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
I think the questions you are asking are actually about more than just enforcement data. I would refer you to the government's open data initiative across government, which is a massive undertaking the fruits of which I think you'll see in time. That's where I think you are going to be seeing more of that information come out.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
It is a broader question, but it's also a specific one, and it relates directly to the enforcement branch's efforts to achieve compliance through incentives and disincentives. It's also within the enforcement branch's power to seek funding, through annual budget processes, to provide greater amounts of information to Canadians.
I think the question still stands. I think that's a bit of a deke. Why would we not aspire to a similar standard of online data availability for Canadians so that they know what is going on with respect to enforcement? That includes inspections, investigations, environmental compliance orders, prosecutions, convictions, etc.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
At this time, we are focusing on where we are. We are obviously statutorily obliged to report—through the annual reports for CEPA, the Fisheries Act, and the Species at Risk Act—so we provide the information. We also provide information through the reports on plans and priorities, all the parliamentary reports that are tabled, and the departmental performance reports.
We focus our efforts on trying to create publicly accessible information and insight into the work we are doing, through the very venues that you already mentioned and that Heather elaborated on as well: the offenders registry, news releases, and so forth. Those are sort of the framework within which we are currently operating. If, in the future, there is an opportunity to broaden that, that's something we would consider.
Right now, we just really focus on where we plan our activities with respect to executing our duties, and then reporting on them through the mechanisms currently available.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Deb Schulte
Will, I have to cut you off, but I'll come back to you.
Mr. Fast, go ahead.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you.
I'll just continue with Mr. Amos's line of questioning. He suggested that we should be adopting the regime on information and data availability that the U.S. has in place. Mr. Laskowski suggested that we adopt the same authorities as the U.S. has in place for things like engine tampering. He also made a recommendation regarding inspections—that they should be broad enough to include inspections on tampering.
You heard the five recommendations he made. Are these sensible recommendations, to the degree that you can comment on that?
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Unfortunately, we don't really have the ability to comment on them, because we are not the ones who would develop regulations or instruments to deal with the recommendations as they are presented. We would defer to our program colleagues, who are the risk managers, to take into consideration and determine whether those are instruments or changes that they would deem appropriate. We are strictly confined to working with them in terms of the enforcement of what ends up being developed. I would definitely need to defer that. I don't think we are in a position to—
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Certainly. This committee will be considering that. We'll be coming forward with recommendations on how CEPA can be strengthened.
Somewhere along the line, it's not going to be only politicians who consider that. It will be civil servants within your department, and perhaps other departments, who will consider whether these are sensible recommendations going forward. I thought you might have a view as to whether these might assist you in doing a better job of enforcing.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Certainly, in that regard.... Absolutely, if the committee does determine that those recommendations will go forward, we will look at what the organization, the department writ large, is considering in that regard. Where we get involved in terms of any potential drafting of instruments is.... We do get engaged. What we look at, though, is strictly from an enforceability perspective: What is the impact? What is the ability of the officers to enforce the mechanisms that are being put forward? We wouldn't get into the policy aspect of it, as to whether or not it's a good thing to pursue. We strictly look at it in the context of the actual enforceability, once it comes on the books.