Evidence of meeting #39 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Mr. Laskowski, I think that's a Polish name, not a Ukrainian name.
4:40 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
My colleague Mr. Shields talked about margins. I think it's safe to say that, over the last few years, we've seen a decline in operating margins for the owner/operators. Is that correct?
4:40 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Canadian Trucking Alliance
It's a tough industry regardless of the years. I've been in the industry for 22 years. I think there were only a few years in the mid-2000s, when free trade and the American and Canadian economies were gangbusters, when our operating ratios dipped below 0.92.
We're still far away from the class 1s, but it is a tough business. That's not to make excuses.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Right now the government's enforcement authorities make it very difficult, if not impossible, to achieve a level playing field.
4:40 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Canadian Trucking Alliance
I think we need to be clear here too that right now the federal government has no authority after point of sale.
CTA says you should get that same authority and give it to your enforcement officers, as the United States has done.
4:40 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Canadian Trucking Alliance
With regard to the provincial governments, we're very keenly aware that you can't tell them what to do, but Environment Canada through the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment and through the Council of Ministers responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety could develop a regime around the periodic mandatory vehicle inspection regulations whereby we could address this.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Thank you.
Ms. Meroni, you mentioned the AMPs, that you're going to have available very soon or that you do have available.
4:40 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
They're not on the books yet. They're still going through the gazetting process.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
Are you enforcing strict liability offences or absolute liability offences?
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
We're enforcing strict liability offences.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
All right. I know some of the AMPs administered federally cover absolute liability offences, and there is some suggestion that the absolute nature of those offences is being abused by some of our civil servants. We just want to be very careful that this is done fairly. You emphasized fairness, and maybe you could expand on how these AMPs are going to assist you in improving enforcement.
4:40 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
I'm going to turn to our lawyer for a minute.
4:40 p.m.
Linda Tingley Senior Counsel, Environment Legal Services, Department of the Environment
My role with environment legal services is to work closely and assist and advise the enforcement branch. That's the majority of my practice.
In the administrative monetary penalty scheme that is coming forward, the due diligence defence is not a defence that will avoid a violation from being issued. In that sense it would be considered an absolute liability scheme.
The reason for that is so there will be efficiency in using this tool to avoid the prosecutions, which take a fair amount of time and resources on both sides.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ed Fast Conservative Abbotsford, BC
I understand the efficiency, but it has to be balanced by fairness. The problem with not being able to use the due diligence defence is that there are times when any rational Canadian would agree this decision is unfair, but it's found liability.
I've seen a number of instances of that. I'm not criticizing you for that. I believe we need AMPs as a tool, but they have to be administered in a fair and sensitive way. That's all I'm saying.
4:45 p.m.
Director General, Environmental Enforcement Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
I said strict liability, because the rest of what we do is strict liability. AMPs are going to be a new thing for us.
I have the same concerns you do about making sure this is done fairly and consistently across the board in the country. It's going to be new for our program, so we're putting a considerable amount of attention into training officers, making sure they understand where their authority begins and ends, making sure they're advised appropriately, and making sure they're talking to each other. I've always found that's the best way to get fairness and consistency across the country.
I can make a rule and lock everyone down or I can provide opportunities for people to come together and discuss the best thing to do. You're going to be seeing a lot of that, especially in the early years of AMPs. We're going to be watching that very closely, for exactly the concerns that you raised.
4:45 p.m.
Chief Enforcement Officer, Enforcement Branch, Department of the Environment
Could I add one final point in terms of the administrative review process? There is also the venue where requests for review can be made to the chief review officer. It's an independent entity to look at the review process.
