Environment Committee on March 10th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Redekopp now for five minutes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I want to read from the proposed offset credit regulations that were released last week. It says, “Several provincial governments...are in the process of establishing...offset systems to support their carbon pollution pricing programs.... The federal offset system is intended to complement these systems.” It gives the example of Saskatchewan.

In Saskatchewan, agriculture is obviously foundational to our province. It seems like the regulations establish time periods of 30 years for forestry products, 20 years for other biological projects and eight years for other projects. Under this framework a crop has to be in the ground for 20 years to claim a carbon credit. Of course, that's impossible if a crop has a four- to six-month turnaround time.

How do you say, on one hand, that this is part of the pan-Canadian framework and recognize the offset system that Saskatchewan is putting place, and on the other hand not recognize agricultural crops?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

This is the beginning of the conversation on offsets. What we published was an initial framework. Obviously, there will be comment on the initial framework. They're not actually the specific offset protocols. Those come next. One of them certainly is agriculture-related. The other one is forestry-related. There are four and there probably will be more going forward.

The idea is, obviously, to enable the creation of credits associated with sequestration options and to be able to monetize those for farmers or for others in the context of the industrial output-based pricing system.

In terms of the specifics around the years, maybe I can ask Christine Hogan, my deputy, to respond specifically.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

No, that's fine. I think I understand that part of it.

If Saskatchewan decides to recognize agricultural crops in its offset system, does it make sense that you will recognize them in terms of what your regulations will say?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That's certainly the intent.

Obviously, the offset system in any province would need to have the kind of integrity with respect to the offset itself, as the federal system does, but the idea is to not duplicate things that some of the provinces may already be doing. The idea would be to align, yes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

If Saskatchewan decides that a six-month crop is part of its offsets, that will then be qualified to receive federal carbon credits, right?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Again, as I said, this initial framework was only published a week ago. Part of the work that's ongoing is to have these conversations with provinces and territories to ensure that we actually have a common understanding about how they will work together.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Okay.

Of course, as you know, Saskatchewan farmers are very innovative and actually are world leaders in the soil sequestration of greenhouse gases, so this is really critical to my province. In fact, what I find surprising is that farmers created solutions to these problems before anyone even knew these were problems. It's really important that the hard work that's gone into this over the last decades will be credited to them.

For example, in Saskatchewan, there are nine megatonnes of carbon that are captured annually by farmers. Will they be able to get their credits for that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The carbon that is sequestered has to be additional. You can't go back to 1930 and recognize something that somebody did in 1930 to sequester carbon or we will never make the targets and we will never make the progress that we need to make.

Certainly, the additional.... I believe the date that we've been talking about is 2017, so anything that has been done since 2017 could potentially qualify. Again, this is an initial framework. The idea is to have conversations going forward.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I can tell you that in Saskatchewan there is going to be a lot more push for the nine megatonnes of carbon that are sequestered through agriculture to be credited towards this program, because farmers have done a lot of work on this over the years. How do you look them in the eye and tell them—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Mr. Redekopp, the unfortunate thing is that we are where we are in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, and every different group in every different province and territory would make a similar claim. Manitoba makes the same claim for the investments it's made in hydroelectric power, as would British Columbia.

At the end of the day, if all you're doing is recognizing things that were done 20 years ago, you will never make the progress on climate action that the world needs to make.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Saskatchewan's goals are to develop and implement an offset system that creates additional value for actions that result in carbon sequestration or reduced emissions—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

—so would you agree that if Saskatchewan's goals are in line with the proposed federal regulations, then you would recognize the equivalency of the Saskatchewan rules?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Again, that's a conversation that we will have, but certainly the intention is to align those things. We obviously have to get to a point where they are aligned. That's certainly the objective, yes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Excellent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have enough time for a comment.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That's fine. I'll end it there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.

Mr. Saini, you have the floor.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and officials, for coming here and spending this time with us. I find this very informative, and I offer a warm welcome to you and your officials.

I want to concentrate on the supplementary (C)s.

I see that in the supplementary (C)s there is an internal reallocation in Parks Canada for the creation and expansion of new national parks. Where I live in southwestern Ontario, we have the highest level of biodiversity in the country but also, unfortunately, the most species at risk.

What are the key opportunities that you see for expanding protected lands in southern Ontario?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That's a great question.

People often think about protected spaces in the north, in Tallurutiup Imanga or the Nahanni National Park Reserve.

Certainly, what we've seen through COVID-19 is how important natural spaces are to people who live in urban environments, so we need to think a lot about how we can actually ensure that everybody can have access to these kinds of spaces.

We've developed a three-part strategy. One part of it is really focused on the southern part of Canada, which is the area where most of us live. It really is around enhancing the natural spaces that exist—ecological corridors, things like the ravines in Toronto—and establishing urban national parks in conjunction with municipalities. We talked about Rouge National Urban Park in Toronto. Mr. Redekopp will be familiar with the conversations that we've been having around Wanuskewin.

We're trying to ensure that we're actually providing those opportunities but also providing space, particularly for areas that are of great ecological value.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I want to touch a little on the agriculture sector.

When it comes to greening growth in the agriculture sector, what is the government going to do to make sure the sector is thriving in a sustainable way? What do you see about tackling food waste as a key part in helping our agriculture industry be both sustainable and competitive?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The food waste issue is a really important one. I think there is a growing consensus that we need to take action to address the issue of food loss and waste and try to think more about those resources in the context of things we do.

A project was recently announced in the town of Petawawa about taking food waste and converting it into biogas, into renewable energy, for the purpose of carbon reduction, but also for the purpose of using what has been waste as a resource. I think those kinds of projects are going to be increasingly important. It's part of this broader conversation around the circular economy. We need to get to the point where we stop thinking about waste and we start thinking about everything as a resource. We started with plastics. We're starting the work on food waste, and we need to move our way through a whole range of other things in our economy.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

You mentioned the Arctic. I was pleased to see we're still maintaining our funding for scientific capacity in Alert. As you know, as climate change advances, the Arctic is rapidly becoming a centre of international interest.

How do you think this investment helps us understand and counteract the effects of climate change in the Arctic and protects our Arctic sovereignty in the world? The Arctic is opening up.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It is opening up.

A whole lot of things are happening in the Arctic. I think this observatory will help us get a handle on how fast things are moving, perhaps better forecasting for some of the changes around climate adaptation, potentially around the melting of the permafrost and a whole range of those things that affect infrastructure, that affect shipping lanes. That part of the science is really important.

We are strengthening Canada's physical presence in the north through the renewal of the Canadian Coast Guard fleet and the icebreakers in the coast guard fleet, and we are thinking a lot more about some of the emerging infrastructure issues that the north is going to face as climate change continues its inexorable march forward.