Environment Committee on March 10th, 2021

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

I have one more question, Minister Wilkinson.

I live in a riding in north Toronto, and we like to describe ourselves as the city within the park. It's become even more true during the pandemic as we seek out green spaces, like Toronto's incredible ravine system. I actually live next door to one of them. It's a wonderful escape from the city, but it's also essential for wildlife conservation, air quality and storm water management.

The estimates show additional funding for nature conservation programs. Can you describe the government's goals to preserve and conserve our natural heritage and the steps being taken to achieve that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It will have to be a very brief description, Minister.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Nature conservation and expanding natural spaces has been incredibly important. We've done a lot of work, and we have a long way to go to the 25 by 25.

Certainly urban parks, ecological corridors and things like the ravines are areas we really want to focus on with respect to ensuring there are opportunities for people who live in urban areas to experience nature.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Before I turn to Ms. Pauzé, I'd like to point out that we will be closing the meeting at 6:45 p.m. So we will have two hours.

Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the Minister and the other guests for being with us today.

Please keep in mind that the configuration gives me a limited amount of time in the second round of questions. I would appreciate it if you would formulate your responses with the understanding that I have very little time available.

Mr. Minister, your department's programs have nice names: the climate action incentive fund, the clean growth program, and the pan-Canadian framework on clean growth and climate change. Those are great program names.

Today, under the climate action incentive fund, the amount you are seeking is $9.1 million. Recently, in February, the International Institute for Sustainable Development released a report on federal subsidies to the fossil fuel sector. It contained program names like the strategic innovation fund, the energy innovation program and sustainable development technology Canada, among others.

These programs allocated their funds, to the tune of $55 million for 2020 alone, to commercializing clean technology for the oil and gas sector. In actual fact, they allocated them to funding four oil and gas projects in 2019 and 2020. They provide assistance for greenhouse gas reduction initiatives in the fossil fuel sector.

Let me go back to the report, which emphasizes the lack of transparency with respect to public funds that still find their way to the oil and gas sector, as well as government program names that are sometimes misleading and that create confusion about where those funds are going.

I understand that we cannot put any questions to the Bank of Canada, to Export and Development Canada or to the Department of Natural Resources.

However, Mr. Minister, in terms of the programs in your purview, can you confirm to me that the climate action incentive fund does not support projects related to the fossil fuel industry?

If I have the Chair's permission to make this request, I would like to receive details on the projects that benefit from the climate action incentive fund.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Minister, you have the floor.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for the question.

Of course, our government has committed to eliminating ineffective subsidies by 2025, and we will.

However, the climate action incentive fund you are talking about provides grants to small businesses to improve their energy efficiency. Full details are provided in a transparent manner and, if you want them, they are totally available, of course.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

I would indeed like to receive details of the projects since 2015, because I have been in office since then.

I would also like to talk to you about the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. In the supplementary estimates (C), votes 1c and 5c, under funding to modernize the enforcement of environmental laws and regulations, total almost $2.4 million. The word “modernize” bothers me because we often see it used indiscriminately. Also, the commitment is not particularly clear.

On the other hand, in the Throne Speech, we saw plans to modernize the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. You know, I very much regretted that the committee did not meet for basically half of 2020, and I am sure the feeling is shared by the members of this committee. I suspect that department officials have been working hard and I wonder if that commitment has kept your teams busy.

Is at least some of the nearly $2.4 million allocated to planning your commitment to modernize the Canadian Environmental Protection Act?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes, of course. We promised Parliament that we would modernize the Canadian Environmental Protection Act and we have been working on it over the course of this year.

We want to enact the legislation perhaps in April or May. However, the Act has not been amended since 1999, and it has a lot in it. Also, in the chemicals management plan, under which we set out how they are used in this country, we still have a lot of work to do to make sure we include the environmental protections that Canadians want.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Last month, I spoke with people who have worked to study the 87 recommendations for modernizing the Act, such as Breast Cancer Action Quebec. I have also sensed concern at Mothers Step In, an organization that has grown across Canada. I would like to focus on this key commitment to people's health.

Could you tell us if any groundwork has been laid?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes. I can tell you that we have done some work. We have also been thinking about the recommendations that the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development made in 2017. I know that we will be able to discuss some things when the bill comes before Parliament in the next couple of months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We will continue with Ms. Collins for six minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Collins.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here today.

You spoke in your opening statement about the importance of exceeding our climate targets, but the reality is that we are not on track to meet our climate targets. We're the only G7 country whose emissions have increased instead of decreased.

Climate accountability needs to be paired with climate action, and I don't see a sign of the kind of bold climate action that we need in these estimates. It's the kind of investments that would provide us with a just and sustainable recovery that other countries like Germany and France are making. Even President Biden has a $2-trillion economic stimulus plan that is heavily focused on climate-related investments.

Small investments aren't going to cut it. We're missing this huge opportunity here in Canada to be a leader in the clean economy and to create good jobs that will help us fight the climate crisis. It feels like Canada is being left behind.

Why isn't this government providing investments that match the scale of the crisis?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Minister, before you answer, could you move your mike up a little bit?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Is that better?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Probably. I'll see if I get an email and I'll tell you.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Okay.

Thank you for the question, Ms. Collins.

I hear you and I agree with you in terms of the urgency of the crisis. However, I would have to disagree with you in terms of the urgency of government action.

We are on track to meet and exceed our 2030 targets. Canada, if you look at the climate plan that was released in December, has perhaps the most detailed climate plan that exists in the world. It is fully modelled, fully costed, and it only takes into account things that have been funded to date.

We have invested $100 billion since 2016 in the climate crisis. We are actively working with President Biden. In fact, there's a new high-level dialogue, which I and John Kerry lead, focusing on how we can help to accelerate, in both countries, the climate action that we so desperately need.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

You'll excuse me if I'm skeptical and I think Canadians are skeptical. We have missed every single climate target that we've set and this Liberal government has said before that we're on track to meeting. We are not on track to meeting our Paris commitments, and those Paris commitments are inadequate.

Perhaps you could talk about the specific additional actions through the pan-Canadian framework on climate change that are enough to close that gap and achieve our targets, because right now, it appears they're not.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Again, with due respect, they are, and they're laid out very clearly in the climate plan that was released in December. Those go all the way from the escalation on the price on pollution; enhanced regulations, including in areas like transportation; investments in working with large emitters to significantly reduce their emissions; building investments and transportation investments.

As I said, Canada now has probably the most detailed climate action plan in the world. It is actually very transparent in terms of being able to track progress, far more so than many of our European colleagues, and certainly far more than the Americans.

If you go through that and you look at the modelling that's in there, Canada is on track, and it is probably one of the only countries that can legitimately say that, because it is such a detailed plan.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Minister, in your opening statement, you talked about a net increase of $70 million to Environment and Climate Change Canada. We are in a climate emergency. People are done waiting for action from the government that often says the things you're saying, the right things, but doesn't actually follow through.

The time for action is now. We are spending billions on a pipeline we do not need, that is not necessarily going to be profitable and is going to make it harder to meet our climate targets. We're continuing to subsidize the fossil fuel industry.

A report just came out: $1.9 billion in fossil fuel subsidies in 2020. The Liberal government actually increased subsidies by a staggering 200%. Why are we not taking that $1.9 billion this year and putting it directly into the kind of investments in a just and sustainable recovery and the sustainable jobs that we need right now?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Let me just clarify. The $70 million is supplementary (C) and is backward looking. If you actually look at the climate plan that was released in December, there's $15 billion in new investments, another $14 billion in public transit and another $10 billion in the infrastructure bank. That's $40 billion in new investments.

With respect to your question regarding fossil fuel subsidies, we remain committed to phasing those out, but the number you cite is actually the money that was included for the clean-up of orphan wells and for diesel for indigenous communities, both of which your party supported.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

When I talk about the billions of dollars this government intends to spend on the Trans Mountain expansion project and the billions of dollars being handed out to Imperial Oil and to other companies that took advantage of fossil fuel subsidies, those are not included in the examples you just gave.

However, I want to switch over to nature and nature-based solutions. One of the things we've been hearing from Nature Canada is that, through their green budget coalition, we actually require an additional $4.8 billion over five years to fulfill Canada's commitment on protected areas.

Part of the government's conservation commitments are 25% by 2025, 30% by 2030. The government has talked a lot about nature-based solutions to the climate crisis. We're facing this biodiversity crisis, and these things are very closely linked. You've known that we're not close to meeting our climate targets or our commitments to conservation. Are we seeing actual adequate funding for these kinds of programs to help us conserve nature?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We are at six minutes, so it will have to be a very brief answer.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I think that's a very important question, and certainly nature conservation is extremely important.

We've made enormous progress and we have a line on getting beyond the 17%, but you are right that there will be a need for initial investments to get to 25% by 2025 and 30% by 2030. I fully expect we will be able to ensure that happens over the coming couple of years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, thank you.

We'll go to the second round now, starting with Mr. Jeneroux for five minutes.