Environment Committee on March 17th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Hello. I'd like to welcome you all to the 19th meeting of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development.

I should just let you know that the meeting is scheduled to end at 4:30 p.m.

Today we'll spend the first hour hearing from witnesses on Scot Davidson's Bill C-204. We'll then proceed to a clause-by-clause study of the bill.

This afternoon, we have three witnesses from Environment and Climate Change Canada: Helen Ryan, whom we know well, Dany Drouin and Nathalie Perron. We also have Richard Tarasofsky from Global Affairs Canada.

Ms. Ryan, you have five minutes. Go ahead.

[Helen Ryan, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon. My name is Helen Ryan and I'm the associate assistant deputy minister, as we just heard, for the Department of the Environment. I'm with the environmental protection branch of Environment and Climate Change Canada.

I am accompanied today by my colleague Dany Drouin, who is the director general of the plastics and waste management directorate, and Nathalie Perron, who is the director of the waste reduction and management division.

I'm also accompanied by Richard Tarasofsky from Global Affairs Canada, who is the deputy director of oceans and environmental law.

I'm pleased to participate in your study of Bill C-204 and to inform the committee of Canada's ambitious agenda to move forward toward zero plastic waste. The past several months have been very productive, and our efforts will yield results both in Canada and internationally.

The Government of Canada has a comprehensive plan to achieve zero plastic waste and eliminate plastic pollution. Through the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment, we have a framework for joint action with provinces and territories with the goal of keeping plastics in the economy and out of the environment. The Canada-wide strategy on zero plastic waste has a two-phase Canada-wide action plan on zero plastic waste that aims to support Canada’s shift to a circular economy for plastics. It contains actions that contribute to reaching the ambitious plastic waste reduction targets laid out in the Ocean Plastics Charter.

Canada’s plan is directly related to global actions aimed at improving plastic waste management and reducing plastic litter entering the environment. A key element of our international action is to implement controls on the transboundary movement of plastic waste and to work with the international community to ensure that our exports do not lead to pollution abroad.

Canada has a robust legislative regime in place for controlling transboundary movement of waste and ensuring that controlled shipments crossing Canada’s borders reach the intended destinations and are managed so as to reduce releases of contaminants into the environment.

The regime includes the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, which is our cornerstone and provides a range of tools to manage wastes. It ensures that movement of wastes controlled under part 7, division 8 of the act cannot take place unless the minister is notified and a permit is issued for international exports.

The PCB waste export regulations, 1996, set out controls on the export of wastes containing PCBs. The interprovincial movement of hazardous waste regulations control the movement of hazardous waste and hazardous recyclable material between provinces through a tracking mechanism. The export and import of hazardous waste and hazardous recyclable material regulations implement Canada’s international obligations, including those under the Basel Convention.

These controls are efficient only if the regulated community complies with them. Accordingly, Environment and Climate Change Canada has actively communicated with Canadian exporters, ad hoc recyclers and sorting facilities with respect to these new measures to ensure their awareness of the new controls that are in place.

These regulations control the export of any waste covered by the Basel Convention when exported to a Basel party. They also control wastes that are defined as hazardous or waste prohibited by the importing country, even if the waste is not defined as hazardous in Canada. A cornerstone of CEPA and the regulations is to seek the consent of importing and transit countries for any export of these wastes from Canada before an export permit is issued. In providing their consent, the importing and/or transit countries confirm that these wastes will be managed in an environmentally sound manner.

On December 29, 2020, Canada accepted the plastic waste amendments adopted under the convention. These amendments strengthen controls on the transboundary movement of certain non-hazardous, non-recyclable plastic wastes, such as mixed or contaminated plastic waste or certain resins—for instance, PVC—and clarify that hazardous plastic wastes are covered by the convention.

The concrete result of this acceptance is that, since January 1, 2021, an export permit is required for the export of plastic waste subject to the convention from Canada to a Basel party. This is a concrete and effective mechanism to ensure that exports of plastic waste covered by the convention take place only if the consent of the importing country has been obtained.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

Is there anyone else from Environment Canada who will be speaking or will it just be you?

[Helen Ryan]

It's just me that's speaking.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay, but everyone will be available for questions.

[Helen Ryan]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Perfect.

We'll go to Mr. Tarasofsky from the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development.

Go ahead. You have five minutes.

[Richard Tarasofsky, Deputy Director, Oceans and Environmental Law Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you. In fact, I have no opening statement.

[Helen Ryan]

I'm doing the only opening statement.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. That's fine. We'll go straight to questions.

We're starting the six-minute round with Mr. Jeneroux.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That was the most efficient opening statement on this that we've heard here for a while.

Ms. Ryan, if I may, you talked a lot in your opening statement about what your department is doing to ensure proper waste management and about the regulations to control the export of any waste covered under the Basel Convention when exported to a Basel party, but as we know, the U.S. is not a member of the Basel Convention. They haven't ratified.

The purpose, then, of the regulation is obviously to control waste management. You stated, “In providing their consent”—and you said “their”, which I assume means the members of the Basel Convention—“the importing and/or transit countries confirm that these wastes will be managed in an environmentally sound manner.”

Being that the U.S.—and I'm sure other countries to which we export—do not have to follow the regulations, meaning that the waste can be managed or mismanaged however they see fit, I'd like to know from your perspective how much of Canada's plastic waste we have exported to the United States in, let's say, the last year.

[Helen Ryan]

Thank you for that question.

I should just note that while the United States is not subject to the Basel Convention, in order for Canada to ratify the Basel Convention, we had to enter into an arrangement with the U.S. to ensure the environmentally sound management of non-hazardous waste and scrap subject to transboundary movement.

I will turn to Nathalie Perron to give you the specifics with respect to the amount going to the United States, but it is a significant portion of our material.

[Nathalie Perron, Director, Waste Reduction and Management Division, Department of the Environment]

Thank you. Between 2019 and 2020, we exported to the United States about 135,000 tonnes of all plastic waste.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Okay. Let's take it one step further.

I was reading a quote from the 10,000 Changes website, which is funded by your department. It says, “Canada exported 101,131 tonnes of plastic waste [just] in 2018”. Your numbers are little bit larger, Ms. Perron, only because obviously the scope is 2020. It says, “much of it [is] to American recycling brokers, who then resell it to overseas companies. Once Canadian waste enters the U.S., it is not tracked, so where it ends up is a mystery.”

Even though they are not part of the Basel Convention, there is this signed agreement, but there still seems to be that mystery in terms of where the waste ends up. I'm hoping that maybe Ms. Perron or Ms. Ryan could give us a sense of how we would go about tracking that. How could we get the accurate number of how much of that waste is Canada's in particular?

It sounds like it ends up in the Asian markets as well.

[Helen Ryan]

Thank you for the question.

I would just like to point out that waste that is not disposed of in the United States and that is just in transit is subject to our regulation and does require an export permit. We track and monitor the material that is transited through the United States, and when it's destined for a party that is a member of the Basel Convention it's also excluded from our arrangements with the United States. The company wanting to do so would require an export permit prior to the export, and this requirement is, again, one of the elements of our being able to and having accepted the Basel amendments.

I'll turn to Nathalie Perron to see if she has further information to add.

[Nathalie Perron]

Thank you, Ms. Ryan.

No, that's very good.

In fact, out of that number a lot of it may actually be covered under our regulations and as such would require a permit. Through the regulations there's a tracking of the movement of the waste. For all the waste that is exported through a permit, we do have information and we can track where it goes.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

On 10,000 Changes, when it says it's a mystery, that's just not correct. Is that your opinion?

[Nathalie Perron]

It's not correct for all the waste that is exported to the United States.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

How much money then has Canada had to spend for waste management for having to ship the waste back? I recall the incident—I believe it was with the Philippines—a while back where a large part of it was Canada's waste.

Do you have an accurate dollar figure on what that would be?

[Helen Ryan]

Thanks for the question.

We made changes to our regulations to require that, should a waste not be accepted in the receiving country, it's the responsibility of the waste exporter to manage the return of the waste to Canada.

With respect to the specifics on the waste containers that were exported to the Philippines, between 2013 and 2014 a Canadian company exported containers labelled as recycled plastics to the Philippines. While the export of the material at issue was not at the time regulated under Canadian law, it was exported. Then it was subsequently refused entry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We're way over time, but I think Mr. Jeneroux was looking for a dollar figure so if there isn't one, we can move on. If you have the dollar figure, you can share it.

[Helen Ryan]

I don't have the dollar figure at hand, but I can get the dollar figure for you and provide it to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Perfect. Thank you.

Mr. Longfield.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here.

We've been sorting through.... I guess in this study when you talk about “sorting” it can be taken a lot of different ways, but in this case we're looking at Bill C-204 as well as the amendments that Canada approved recently on the Basel Convention on plastics, and then we have the Canada-U.S. agreement.

As a member of Parliament, I'm trying to see what's missing in what we've been doing as a government with the Basel Convention and the U.S. agreement, and what would be added by Bill C-204.

Is there anything in Bill C-204 that we're not already addressing through the regulations and the agreements we're currently working on?

[Helen Ryan]

Thanks for that question.

I would say that our current regime controls the wastes in question in an adequate fashion and provides for the measures with respect to the authorities under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act and subsequently under our existing regulations.

I will turn to Nathalie Perron to see if there's anything further she would like to add.