Evidence of meeting #19 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:25 p.m.
Director, Waste Reduction and Management Division, Department of the Environment
Thank you.
The Basel Convention lists all the different operations that are considered recycling and those that are disposal. Those operations are in our regulations so we have a copy of those.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
There are Annex IV sections A and B of the Basel Convention. Based on that, there is nothing in this bill—which would amend CEPA, and CEPA uses the definition from the Basel Convention—that would limit any recycling, resource recovery or reuse activities.
Is that correct, Madam Perron?
3:25 p.m.
Director, Waste Reduction and Management Division, Department of the Environment
I can't comment on what the bill intends to do. I'm sorry.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Right now CEPA has a definition of final disposal that is based on incorporation by reference to the Basel Convention—yes or no?
3:25 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
With respect to the term “final disposal”, the way in which we deal with it under our requirements is through our regulations. What Madam Perron indicated is that our regulations make reference to the same list of materials that are identified in the Basel Convention. It's not the definition—
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Is there a workable definition within CEPA for final disposal, which is utilized currently in the regulations?
3:25 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
CEPA does not contain a definition of final disposal. The types of measures that are controlled are subsequently defined specifically by regulation.
3:25 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
It is an incorporation by reference, so there is a working definition in the Basel Convention, in Annex IV B, of what it is and what it can be used for, which allows for the clear reuse of products that I have mentioned here—recycling reclamation, resource recovery, direct reuse or alternative uses.
3:25 p.m.
Director, Waste Reduction and Management Division, Department of the Environment
It's not an incorporation by reference. Those operations are listed in the regulations. They are not listed under CEPA.
I hope that helps.
3:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you.
I want to thank our witnesses for their knowledge and insight. I thought those were good rounds of questions.
March 17th, 2021 / 3:25 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Mr. Chair, can I get my questions in? There are two minutes left.
3:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
You're absolutely right. I'm sorry. I have too many emails coming in, too many messages.
You're right. You have five minutes.
I'm sorry, Mr. Schiefke.
3:25 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that very much.
I would like to thank our witnesses for joining us today.
There has been a lot of talk at this committee about the importance of enforcement, and rightfully so. To all the witnesses, according to your review of Bill C-204, how would the prohibition be enforced under CEPA?
I understand that the issue could be clarified via regulatory amendments under paragraph 191(a), but doing that would take a significant amount of time. That said, until regulatory amendments are made, enforcement authorities could be limited in that there may not be authority to inspect a shipment of listed “plastic waste” if Bill C-204 is enacted as drafted.
Is that an accurate characterization? Would additional amendments be needed to ensure enforceability of the proposed prohibition?
3:30 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
As we mentioned, the bill targets the final disposal. When we're talking about a shipment and an export, that would be a different activity.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Could this potentially divert resources from other enforcement priorities?
3:30 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
In terms of any of the activities we undertake, we have a limited amount of resources available to us, and we target our resources based on priorities. I can't speak to the specifics in terms of what actions would be taken on a specific case. Those would be specific to the enforcement office, but we have a limited amount of resources to do the work we have before us.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Ms. Ryan.
The design of any measure that may affect trade has to take into account Canada's international trade law as well as the obligations on us that arise from agreements like the World Trade Organization General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, the WTO General Agreement on Trade in Services, and Canada's free trade agreements.
How would the prohibition be consistent with Canada's international trade obligations?
3:30 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Thank you for that question.
I'll turn to Richard Tarasofsky to answer.
3:30 p.m.
Deputy Director, Oceans and Environmental Law Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I would only say that all the instruments that you've identified are indeed relevant. They have a list of provisions in themselves, which would be important considerations. For example, all of the instruments you mentioned have a prohibition on export restrictions.
There is also a set of exceptions that relate to environmental issues. These exceptions must be applied in a manner that involves looking at a whole series of factors. They are very fact specific and they must not lead to any arbitrary discrimination.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you, Mr. Tarasofsky.
From a domestic point of view, what would the impact be on waste management in Canada if we were to ban the export of plastic waste for final disposal? How would this immediate prohibition impact domestic landfill capacity in provinces and territories and in municipal solid waste management, and how would it impact federal relations with provinces and territories, as well as municipalities?
3:30 p.m.
Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Environmental Protection Branch, Department of the Environment
Thank you for that question.
As we previously heard, the capacity of our landfill sites, in addition to our waste management and recycling facilities, is stretched. Adding material for them to handle will be very challenging and potentially could be very problematic with respect to our relations with provinces and territories, as well as municipalities.
Provinces are responsible for the permitting and management of waste and then authorize others to undertake activities. This will place additional responsibilities and burdens on them in terms of the actions they will need to undertake.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
Peter Schiefke Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Thank you very much.
That's the end of my questioning, Mr. Chair.
3:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Mr. Schiefke. Again, I apologize for the confusion and for trying to take your time away. You know that I don't mean to do that.
Thank you again a second time to the witnesses for being here.
