Evidence of meeting #27 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was plastics.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Okay, thank you.
We will hear from Mr. Saini, for six minutes, please.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to all the witnesses. I'm very happy to have all of you here on this Monday afternoon.
Monsieur Cantin, I want to start with you first. I've been reading some of the stuff that your organization has written and something that your executive director has stated publicly. I also noted the comments that you made in your initial remarks. As you're aware, the current recycling system in Canada is a patchwork that varies from province to province, and even from municipality to municipality. An item that is recyclable in one place may not be considered recyclable just one town over.
Do you believe that harmonized federal action on plastics would create better regulatory certainty for businesses than the current patchwork of regulations across hundreds of municipalities?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Director, Sustainability Innovation and Circular Economy, Retail Council of Canada
Definitely. I think the extended producer responsibility, as Maja mentioned earlier, is also one of the key components to success in a federal approach to that. Recognizing that there are provincial areas of jurisdiction, it's really important to make sure that the federal government doesn't get into the provincial responsibilities and that this is an effective, harmonized approach. Building on standards around extended producer responsibility and recycled content might actually help harmonize the systems across Canada, as opposed to getting into something that's a bit more hands-on.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Just so I can understand this, are you suggesting that harmonization would help municipalities and also, according to your organization, provide certainty for businesses?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Director, Sustainability Innovation and Circular Economy, Retail Council of Canada
That's correct.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Ms. Vodanovic, I know you're a municipal leader also. Do you agree with those comments, that harmonization would help?
3:55 p.m.
Mayor of the Borough of Lachine, City of Montréal
Absolutely. I went to many different conferences and I heard Canadian Tire and Loblaws saying that it's a nightmare. There are different regulations in Quebec that we have to comply with for all our products on the shelves. It's different in Ontario and it's different in Vancouver. They have people doing that full time.
If we had a harmonized system across each province, the market would also be bigger. It would be easier for them and we could create more of a market for the recycled plastics that we produce.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
The second question I have for Mr. Cantin is the following. While we know banning single-use plastics is a move in the right direction, it won't solve all of our plastic pollution troubles overnight. To date, the majority of recyclable plastics that would not be included in this ban still aren't recycled and end up in landfills and in the environment. What advice would you give to get the rest of the plastics out of the landfills and into a circular system?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Director, Sustainability Innovation and Circular Economy, Retail Council of Canada
We need to kick-start a circular economy by making sure there's a really good basis for the material that we collect for recycling.
Recycle content standards—incremental standards to ensure the market has the capacity to absorb changes over time—would be the key for that. At this point, we're looking at a system in which we send stuff to recycling but we're not really in a position to reuse that material and close the loop on packaging. That would be a way to connect the output with the new input and to really close the loop on a circular economy.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
This question is for Mr. Moucachen.
Oftentimes when plastics are recycled, they're recycled into plastics of lesser value that can't be recycled again. For example, recyclable bottles might be recycled into plastic bags or clothing fabric. How do we ensure that recycled plastics are recycled not just once but continually so there's a circular loop?
4 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Merlin Plastics
We do that by designing the package itself, such as, for example, a clear bottle that has a label and printing that is soluble and caustic and that dissolves. Properly designing the package would allow you right from the get-go to recirculate and recycle it and turn it into the same package. One of the challenges we face is that if, for example, a package has a lot of printing and a lot of colour, we cannot turn a multicoloured product back into a clear form, so those are some of the issues that we consider.
In terms of environmental benefit, the way I see it is that regardless of the application we sell to, we are displacing a non-renewable resource—virgin resin. If we're sending our product into a bottle or if we're sending it back into a pipe...by sending it into a pipe versus into a bottle, we're displacing one pound of virgin resin of a non-renewable resource. The environmental benefit and the reduction of carbon is still the same. I can see that philosophically it's better to see it over and over again multiple times instead of going from a consumable good to a durable good, but even if we go to a durable good, we're still displacing a pound of non-renewable resource.
4 p.m.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
The government has a proposal for recycled-content standards. What's your opinion on that?
4 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Merlin Plastics
I think it's excellent. We need a sustainable market. As Maja mentioned, we have to maintain our service to our community, and we cannot compete with commodities.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Mr. Chair, before I begin, I would like a clarification.
Less than one hour before the meeting began, we learned that Marc Olivier was to attend. However, he isn't here. Have we heard from him?
4 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Angela Crandall
The IT staff have spoken with him. He will join us soon. It's not a technical issue; Mr. Olivier has simply not yet joined the meeting.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Madam Clerk, can you send me an email when he joins the meeting?
4 p.m.
The Clerk
Of course.
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
We will try to give him five minutes for his presentation.
Ms. Pauzé, you have the floor.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank all the witnesses for being here.
My first question is for Madam Mayor.
You represent the Montreal Metropolitan Community on the National Zero Waste Council.
Do you consider the measure to ban the six single-use plastic items to be an adequate response to the problem cities are currently facing?
4 p.m.
Mayor of the Borough of Lachine, City of Montréal
Thank you for your question, Ms. Pauzé.
No, absolutely not. We need to go much further. It's a drop in the bucket. The thousands of containers in grocery stores are also single-use containers. Forks and spoons come to mind, of course, but juice and shampoo bottles are also only used for a few weeks before being thrown away. You really have to look at everything that is being produced.
Yes, we need to go much further. Recycled content is one measure that will get us there.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Monique Pauzé Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you very much.
My second question is for Mr. Cantin.
On your website, in the extended producer responsibility section, there appears to be a report indicating what is being done in Europe or elsewhere in North America. When you click on the link to download the report, “404 error” comes up. I don't know what's going on. I tried to download it on more than one computer.
Because Europe is decades ahead of us in recycling plastics, it would be helpful to get that report. Could you possibly send it to us?