Environment Committee on May 5th, 2021

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Precisely.

[Helen Ryan]

I'm going to ask Dany Drouin to answer that, as I don't know the answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please be quick.

[Dany Drouin]

The answer is no. The 9% comes from the Deloitte study, which does not include any figures for exported plastic waste.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Could you raise your microphone, Mr. Drouin, so we can hear you better?

Thank you, Ms. Pauzé.

We now go to you, Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to dive a little bit further into the criteria around the six items that have been proposed for the ban. I'm curious. I didn't feel that I understood your answer around reusable items. For things like plastic beverage cups and lids, which I understand aren't included in the list of items that are proposed to be banned, are there not viable and readily available alternatives for products like that?

[Helen Ryan]

The items that have been identified for a ban or a restriction relate specifically to items found in the environment or likely to be found in the environment and causing harm, where they're causing problems for recycling or recovery and for which there are known alternatives.

With respect to beverage containers, I think you're talking about plastic bottles—for instance, water bottles. Those items are able to be recycled and are recycled in high numbers. With respect to a target on banning or restricting, it's limited to those causing problems in the system of recycling and recovery, because the objective here, remember, is to move to a circular economy and to keep the value of the plastics in the economy but out of the environment.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Ms. Ryan, I'm curious about something like plastic lids. To consider disposable, single-use plastic lids as things that don't have a readily available alternative....I'm trying to get at the criteria that your government uses to determine readily available alternatives. I don't know; maybe I'm not asking the question clearly enough.

Would reusable items be considered readily available alternatives?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Answer pretty briefly, please.

[Helen Ryan]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I mentioned, with respect to reusable items, it won't be just reusable items that will meet the criteria, because not everybody will have a reusable item and may need to acquire the good. We look to see that there's an alternative that will serve the same purpose as this single-use plastic item.

However, as part of our promotion, we actively encourage the “reduce” first, so use your own cup. You don't need one, but when you do, there will still be an alternative available.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll now go to Mrs. McLeod.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to talk about these six banned items from a number of different perspectives.

Was there an evaluation—I haven't seen it, and maybe I've just missed it—in terms of where all those products came from? In Canada, where did the straws come from? How much is domestically produced versus internationally produced and imported? Has that assessment been done?

[Helen Ryan]

In the work that's been done to date, we've put forward the framework for how decisions are made on selecting the items for a potential proposed ban or restriction. Now the work is going on with respect to the details on the specifications around those items. Those details, when they come out, will include the information that you specifically talked about, such as how much it is, what the economic value is, etc.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Right now, we don't know if the straws that are going to be banned are coming in from China or are internally produced.

Let's say that a ban moves forward and that we have a company in Canada that ships both within Canada and to the U.S. If the ban comes in place in Canada and it's not a legal product in Canada, will the ban extend to the company in terms of being able to export to the United States?

I know that has happened in other departments, so can you tell us definitively if that is going to happen with a producer of one of the banned products in Canada?

[Helen Ryan]

As I mentioned, the details of what will actually be in the regulations have not yet been put forward. When they are put forward, they will include considerations around the restrictions with respect to imports, exports, things in transit, what the point of application of the regulation is, considerations for exemptions or other assessments, and whether it is a restriction or a ban. All of those things will be put forward in the proposed regulations.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Right now we're banning six products. If I were a company that sold to the U.S. and employed 50-60 people, quite frankly, I would be terrified in terms of this unknown. One is a known, but the other is the unknown.

I know Canada's sovereignty is important, but we used to have a fairly robust regulatory co-operation council with the U.S. Is that process still in place, and are these conversations also happening within that format?

[Helen Ryan]

I would have to turn to my colleagues outside of the department with respect to the scope of the regulatory co-operation agenda. With respect to single-use plastic items, there have been some discussions with respect to the work that's being advanced with the U.S., but it doesn't form a specific regulatory co-operation item.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I understood that was the table where these conversations could be happening.

Basically, what I'm hearing is that we've committed to a ban. I understand we've committed to a ban with the regulatory rules to be in place by 2021, and there are many unknowns.

I think we all on this panel agree with the need to reduce plastic waste. We agree with the circular economy, but I also think there's a lack of t's being crossed and i's being dotted. Again, I look at a company in the riding I represent that all of a sudden is just told, “You can't export your product anymore,” so he'll have to close down his business and lay off a significant number of employees.

Those elements are important, and I think our businesses deserve that kind of information and knowledge, rather than living with this horrific uncertainty.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We have 30 seconds left. I don't know if there's an answer.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I would certainly appreciate if any documents, meetings or work that has been done with the Regulatory Cooperation Council and any trade compliance analysis that has been done could be tabled with this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. Ryan, could you provide that to the committee in due course?

We'll go now to our final questioner before we break to go in camera. Go ahead, Mr. Saini.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you to all the officials for all the work that you do on behalf of Canadians and for coming today and helping us with this study.

Ms. Ryan, I want to talk about the health side. One of the things we've heard from numerous witnesses is that plastics bioaccumulate in food chains and ecosystems.

Could you provide some insight into how you assess the potential for a substance to bioaccumulate in a food chain when adding a substance to schedule 1? How was this done for plastics?

[Helen Ryan]

I will turn to my colleague, Marc D'Iorio, to respond to this question.

[Dr. Marc D'Iorio]

Thank you very much.

The assessment considered what was published and was available in the literature. The assessment itself looked at over 450 publications.

With respect to human health, a conclusion was not presented. More research is required to understand exactly the impact of microplastics on human health and their bioavailabilities through the food chain. The conclusion had to do with microplastics and their impact on the environment.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

How is this going to influence the creation of new regulations around plastics?