Environment Committee on May 5th, 2021

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

On a different note, Madam Ryan, one of the justifications that Mr. Wilkinson used to ban plastics was a study by Deloitte that Environment and Climate Change Canada commissioned, called “Economic Study of the Canadian Plastic Industry, Markets and Waste”.

Jim Goetz of the Canadian Beverage Association mentioned it, and when I went looking for it, wouldn't you know it? The ECCC had removed it from its website, and it's no longer archived under the open government initiative. I had to ask the Library of Parliament for a copy.

The report does talk about the benefits of plastics and the virtues of a circular recycling economy, but it barely mentions the ban and certainly makes no recommendation to ban plastics. Clearly the report your department is using to justify this policy doesn't match the policy outcome.

Why did Environment and Climate Change Canada remove this report from its website, and who gave the go-ahead to scrub it from the open government initiative, contrary to Treasury Board policy? Was it the minister's office?

[Helen Ryan]

I'm not aware of the Deloitte study's having been removed from the Government of Canada's website. I know that there was a shorter version of the report put forward because the actual report itself is extremely voluminous and a number of feet deep—sorry for my non-metric analysis—and that has been made available to those who've requested it. The full report was not put forward; it's too comprehensive.

I may ask my colleague, Dany Drouin, to provide further details with respect to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Maybe he can do that in answer to another question.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Perhaps, Mr. Chair, they can provide a written report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Yes, a written answer would be.... You're asking for the full report or for a written answer?

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I want to know why it was removed from the website.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

We'll go to Mr. Longfield for five minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ms. Ryan, for your testimony.

The primary purpose of CEPA is to “contribute to sustainable development through pollution prevention”. The United Nations sustainable development goal 8 is to promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth and full and productive employment and decent work for all.

In your testimony, you mentioned a target savings of 1.8 megatonnes per year of GHG, and also 42,000 jobs. You've also talked about the integrated management approach. How are you going to be measuring these against sustainable development goal 8 on job growth and on sustainability?

[Helen Ryan]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to turn to Dany Drouin to answer that question.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

[Dany Drouin, Director General, Plastics and Waste Management Directorate, Department of the Environment]

The work to track the progress towards zero plastic waste, including the greenhouse gas emissions and the jobs, is under way.

We're working in particular with Statistics Canada. Currently we don't have these numbers tracked; we're developing the framework and looking at the data and data gap in co-operation with Statistics Canada.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

I'm imagining that municipalities or provincial governments might have to report this to Statistics Canada. When I was in business, I had to report to head office how many tonnes of plastics we were recycling as part of my annual report. There was a job in getting that data, but you're using Statistics Canada, correct?

[Dany Drouin]

Correct. It's through the materials flow studies that are published every second year, which you probably contributed to, as you pointed out.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I can also say it wasn't my most favourite part of the job, but I knew it was important.

Madam Ryan, we've had consistent feedback as we've had our witnesses speaking to us about how the recycling standards are confusing, or can be confusing, for Canadians when they vary across jurisdictions. We're looking at slightly different standards that some provinces, municipalities and territories are using. What's the federal government doing to help align standards so that stakeholders across government levels are sure that they have clear and concise regulations that follow for the users?

[Helen Ryan]

That's one of the elements that's actually being advanced through the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment. We are working to develop standards with respect to recycling, and not just recycling rates but recycling content.

I will turn to Dany Drouin to provide more details with respect to that.

[Dany Drouin]

Thank you, Ms. Ryan.

The work on recycled content and other standards is being implemented by the department, working closely with the provinces and territories.

On recycled content in particular, in the discussion paper that was published in October there were potential avenues and pathways to reach a 50% recycled content target by 2030, as per one of the goals of the Ocean Plastics Charter. As we are progressing to that analysis, we're working with the Standards Council of Canada and other standards organizations to first scan the types of standards that exist and how are they used or not used and what lessons we can draw from that.

At that point we will be looking also to re-engage with stakeholders on the basis of the discussion paper to go into more details, and in between, as I should have probably mentioned, we've held significant stakeholder conversations on the—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Could I ask you this quickly? Are the provincial and territorial ministers also part of your stakeholder consultations?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Answer very quickly, please.

[Dany Drouin]

Yes, correct. In the context of the CCME work, yes. For example, we had participants from PT—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll go to Madame Pauzé for two and a half minutes, please.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you.

Yes, I have two and a half minutes, but at least four questions. I'll start with the first.

In the course of our plastics study, the committee has heard from a number of innovative producers. They expressed concern over the fact that their packaging, which is compostable, biodegradable or made entirely of recycled materials, was subject to the ban.

Can you give producers some clarity on that?

[Helen Ryan]

I'd like to thank the member for her question, Mr. Chair.

As I think I mentioned, packaging is not one of the banned single-use items or substances. I know there can be confusion about that. Our goal is to develop standards on what is required to produce packaging, and that's also something we are working on with the provinces and territories under our action plan.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you for your answer.

As we all know, the use of plastics has skyrocketed since the pandemic began—doubling or even tripling in some cases.

How is Canada going to achieve the plastics reduction targets in the Ocean Plastics Charter, to which Canada is a signatory? The charter states that 55% of plastic packaging must be recycled or reused. Currently, only 9% of plastic packaging is recycled or reused, so the gap is very wide.

Does plastic waste shipped out of the country for recycling count towards the recycled plastics target?

[Helen Ryan]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the member for her question.

If I understand correctly, you are asking whether we include plastics recycled outside the country in the quantity of recycled plastics.