Environment Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number three of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable development. We are here to study zero-emission vehicles.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of September 23, 2020. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. Members may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of the floor, English or French.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

I'll remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, please mute your mike.

Today we have four witnesses before us from the Department of the Environment, Department of Natural Resources, Department Transport and Department of Industry. In light of the tightness of time and the fact that the witnesses have already presented their speaking notes, I will deem their opening statements as read into the record.

[See appendix—Remarks by Helen Ryan]

[See appendix—Remarks by Sharon Irwin]

[See appendix—Remarks by Paula Vieira]

[See appendix—Remarks by Megan Nichols]

With that, we will start with Monsieur Godin.

I will be controlling the time.

Mr. Godin, I wrote in French what I just said, but the clock is ticking. I'll let you know when you have 30 seconds left.

You can go ahead.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here and for being patient, given the vote that was held in the House of Commons. After going over their presentations, I was wondering about something. I have a specific question for the witnesses from the four departments.

Can you confirm that Quebec and British Columbia account for 78% of all the electric vehicles sold in Canada? Kindly keep your answer brief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Who do you want to respond first, Monsieur Godin?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Anyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Who wants to go first?

Ms. Nichols, go ahead.

[Megan Nichols, Director General, Environmental Policy, Department of Transport]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I can confirm that as of September 30 of this year, the majority of zero-emission vehicle sales have occurred in Quebec, B.C. and Ontario. The figures we have are 48% in the province of Quebec, 30%—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Sorry to cut you off, but I'm looking for a specific answer. As you can appreciate, I don't have a lot of time.

My question is straightforward. Can you confirm that Quebec and British Columbia account for 78% of the electric vehicles that were purchased this year, yes or no?

[Megan Nichols]

Madam Chair, our most recent figures are 48% in Quebec, 30% in B.C. and 17% in Ontario.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Ryan, would you like to answer?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Madam Chair, I'm done with that question. I'd like to switch topics. I got confirmation that it was indeed 78%.

Thank you, Ms. Nichols, from the Department of Transport.

The purpose of this study is to determine the feasibility of federal legislation on zero-emission vehicles. A number of programs were rolled out, so I'd like to know how they were designed and examined to ensure they were as effective as possible.

Given the importance of respecting provincial and territorial jurisdiction, did you consult the provinces and territories? If so, which ones? That question is for whomever can answer first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Nichols, would you like to take that question?

[Megan Nichols]

I can confirm that we have a federal-provincial-territorial zero-emission vehicle working group. It has been meeting for a number of years. It meets to discuss best practices and lessons learned on how to increase the uptake of zero-emission vehicles.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Godin, did you have another question?

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Yes, Madam Chair.

Ms. Nichols, can you tell me which provinces were involved in that consultation?

[Megan Nichols]

All provinces are members of this working group.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Were they representatives from the provincial transport ministries or other ministries?

[Megan Nichols]

It includes a combination of ministries of transport and ministries of environment.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Since the government has been in power, it has introduced various programs to achieve very specific targets: 10% in 2025, 30% in 2030 and 100% in 2040. In September 2020, Clean Energy Canada confirmed that Canada is going to miss those targets, just like the ones in the Paris agreement.

Do we have the tools we need to achieve them, and what's being done right now?

As a follow-up question, I'd like to know why Canada doesn't look to Quebec and British Columbia as models since they, alone, account for 78% of the electric vehicles sold in the country. I think the two provinces have expertise that the Canadian government should leverage to achieve Transport Canada's targets.

[Megan Nichols]

I can perhaps try this one as well, Madam Chair.

Certainly, Canada has set very ambitious ZEV sales targets of 10% in 2025, 30% in 2030 and 100% in 2040. We are making progress. In 2018 we were at 2% of zero-emission vehicle sales across the country. In 2019 we were at 3%. For the first half of 2020, we are at 3.4%.

Since the launch of the incentives for the zero-emission vehicles program, we have seen sales increase by 25% in the first year. We are making progress; however, we are continuing to assess progress to determine whether additional measures are required to meet these targets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Longfield for six minutes.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I have a point of order, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Go ahead, Ms. Pauzé.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Sorry, but I thought we were being given the opportunity to question one expert at a time. If I understand correctly, anyone can answer, but I have just two and a half minutes—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

No. Pardon me.

You have six minutes. According to the routine motions that we adopted at the first meeting, both you and the NDP have six minutes in the first round and you can ask any witness. Monsieur Godin chose Ms. Nichols, but you can choose whomever you want.

Now it's Mr. Longfield's turn to ask a witness.

Mr. Longfield, you have six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks, Madam Chair.

I'd like to start off with Clean Energy Canada. It's a great report. It looks as if the think tank is doing a lot of really good work that we're going to benefit from in our report.

One think I was looking for was that there's a SCRAP-IT program in British Columbia for taking vehicles off the road and helping to get new vehicles on the road. Did you do any work on whether a program such as SCRAP-IT, which provinces would run, would help to stimulate the purchase of zero-emission vehicles?