Environment Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thirty seconds for a response. Who do you want to respond?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm still addressing Ms. Ryan. I'm referring to her brief.

[Helen Ryan]

As my colleague Ms. Vieira mentioned, we realize multiple elements need to be in place to increase the number of zero-emission vehicles, including incentives, infrastructure and education. The answer, then, is yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We now go to Ms. Collins, for six minutes.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much.

Ms. Vieira mentioned in the written statement that it's essential to support consumers through the entire consumer continuum, and Ms. Nichols wrote about the initiatives to help meet Canada's ZEV sales targets.

What work if any has been done to support the purchasing of used EVs, second-hand electric vehicles? For many Canadians, purchasing a new vehicle, whether it's gas or electric, isn't an option. With the high cost of rent, child care, medication and other essentials, 50% of Canadians are living paycheque to paycheque, and they often turn to second-hand vehicle purchases.

What are we doing to support these people and to ensure that electric vehicles aren't just for those who can afford a tens of thousands of dollars purchase?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Collins, to whom are you directing your question?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

I said Ms. Nichols and Ms. Vieira—either one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Nichols, would you like to go first? Ms. Vieira, keep your mike ready.

Go ahead.

[Megan Nichols]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Certainly while the incentives for a zero-emissions vehicle program do currently focus on new vehicle sales, we recognize there's an opportunity to make zero-emission vehicles more accessible to all Canadians. We also capture the used zero-emission vehicle market, and this was mentioned in ministerial mandate letters.

About 60% of vehicles acquired annually are done through the secondary market, so Transport Canada is currently exploring options to expand the program to include used vehicles.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you for that. That's good.

Following up on Mr. Godin's question about targets, we did receive information from Clean Energy Canada, describing how Canada is not on track to meet its target of selling 100% zero-emission vehicles by 2040. They quoted Transport Canada:

Analysis has shown that without any further action, Canada could achieve zero-emissions vehicle sales of 4% to 6% of all new light-duty vehicles purchased by 2025 and 5% to 10% by 2030.

Ms. Nichols, you mentioned that we're exploring all options, but is there going to be a plan that outlines how we're going to meet the 10% target by 2020, 20% by 2030, 50% by 2040 and 100% by 2050—if I've got those right?

[Megan Nichols]

As I mentioned earlier, we are seeing good progress towards targets. We started at 2% of sales in 2018. We reached 3% in 2019. We are at 3.4% of sales in the first half of 2020—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Ms. Nichols, I'm sorry to interrupt. I did hear those before.

When you're talking about good progress, if Transport Canada is saying that we're currently projected to only reach 4% to 6% by 2025 and 5% to 10% by 2030, this doesn't seem like good progress to me.

[Megan Nichols]

Yes. With the measures currently under way, we are hoping to see better performance than those previous numbers. We are closely tracking the progress made.

In budget 2019, $700 million was allocated to various measures to increase the uptake of zero-emission vehicles, not only the purchase incentive program but also additional funding for infrastructure as well as some other measures. So we do continue to assess progress to determine whether additional measures are needed.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much.

It was mentioned that Environment and Climate Change Canada has legislative authority to regulate the sectors under the Canadian Environmental Protection Act. They've implemented six regulations under CEPA.

CEPA is over two decades old. It's in desperate need of modernization. Are there any current plans to develop regulations under CEPA that require automakers to achieve Canada's sales targets and a national zero-emission vehicle standard for passenger vehicles? This is probably for ECC.

[Helen Ryan]

We're currently undertaking a mid-term review of our light-duty vehicle regulations. The current regulations go out to model year 2025. They are aligned with the U.S. EPA regulations. We're undertaking a review, because when we first set those regulations, they were viewed by industry as quite ambitious.

Since then the U.S. has rolled back its standard and has put in place provisions that go out to model year 2026. We're finalizing our mid-term review to determine what action is needed in the context of our current regulations. We expect this work to be completed in early 2021.

With respect to exceeding our 2030 targets and getting to net zero by 2050, we're also evaluating what is needed with respect to the transportation sector, including for light-duty vehicles, heavy-duty vehicles and off-road vehicles.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have only 30 seconds.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

That's okay.

I think Ms. Irwin, in her statement, mentioned the innovation and skills plan and the strategic innovation fund. I'm just wondering if work is going towards skills development training and transition for auto sector workers who have lost their jobs and want to work in electric vehicle production.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I'm sorry, but there's no time for a response.

We now go to our second round of five minutes.

Mr. Redekopp, you have five minutes.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you so much.

To all of the witnesses today, thank you for providing your written comments. They really help a lot.

I want to focus my questions on heavy-duty equipment, class 8 vehicles, commonly known as semi-trucks.

To Ms. Irwin, has your department done internal studies on the feasibility of zero-emission heavy-duty engines for class 8 trucks?

[Sharon Irwin]

Specifically, to answer your question very directly, no. Our department has not undertaken studies to look at the feasibility of that in heavy-duty trucks. What we have been doing at ISED, through our programs such as the strategic innovation fund, is to engage with producers, parts manufacturers and others across the spectrum of light-duty vehicles and heavy-duty vehicles to see where we can support and incentivize research and development, as well as technology development for the lightweight reduction fuel efficiency. There are a number of elements there to help meet those targets.

But, no, we have not undertaken such a study.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

Ms. Nichols, for the transport sector, are there going to be similar incentives or subsidies to encourage the switch over to a lower carbon fleet?

[Megan Nichols]

Yes, we certainly are aware that the heavy-duty vehicle sector is a very significant source of greenhouse gas emissions in Canada. Of the emissions from the transport sector, it accounts for 35% of those emissions. It's certainly an area that needs to be addressed. There are a number of challenges and barriers that are unique to this sector. Certainly, one is the significant cost of the purchase of these vehicles. Another is that the technology is still very much in a development phase. While there are more and more models coming online, particularly for the return-to-base segment and shorter haul, there still remains a significant technology gap for long-haul, heavy-duty vehicles. There are barriers that need to be addressed across the spectrum. There's also the question of the availability of fuelling infrastructure, and also the development of necessary codes and standards. We continue to look at all of these areas. At this point it would be premature to comment on potential solutions the government may choose to bring forward.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I might just ask, further to that, with CUSMA and other international agreements, are there going to be difficulties trying to subsidize or to encourage transitions? In fact, could that even be illegal under these treaties?

[Megan Nichols]

Certainly, the heavy-duty vehicle regulatory frameworks are highly integrated between Canada and the U.S. I couldn't comment on barriers from a trade perspective, though. I would have to defer to experts in our international trade department.