Environment Committee on May 17th, 2021

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I would say that the committee is its own master, and it will have conversations about the areas of the bill that it thinks need to be strengthened.

What I would say to you is that this is an amazing group of folks—I would encourage you to meet them at some point—who come from a wide range of experiences and perspectives on this issue. I'm sure that within that room they are having some very interesting and forthright conversations about how to make this kind of progress. I have full confidence in it and I think that we've structured it in the appropriate way, but I'm not going to opine on the powers of the committee. That's up to you folks.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I have one more quick question if I may, Mr. Chair.

Minister, one of your colleagues speaking in the House mentioned that, in his opinion, C-12 provides an ideal evidentiary base for a potential plaintiff to bring forth climate change litigation against the government for inaction.

Has this aspect of Bill C-12 been confirmed through a legal review and, if so, would you be willing to table that review with the committee?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Whenever there is a law that is put into place there is the potential for people or organizations to see whether or not it can be litigated. I'm not going to opine on whether or not this is something that could be litigated through the courts. Certainly, I know that there are people who have different perspectives.

At the end of the day, this is intended to be a forcing function. It's intended to make governments take action and that is the whole structure and focus, to ensure that we can never, in this country, have again a government like Stephen Harper's, which signed up to a target and never had a plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Jeneroux, you have five minutes, please.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Mr. Chair, I believe Mr. Jeneroux was going to pass his time on to me, as long as you're okay with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

That's good. Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for being here today, and to the officials, thank you for what you do for Canada.

Minister, you've said a few things today with regard to the advisory group. You've called it a ministerial panel, and you've also called it an independent expert committee. The bill calls it an advisory committee. Which is it?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It is an independent expert advisory committee that is appointed by the minister. It has a terms of reference. It is an independent body. It has an independent budget and a dedicated secretariat. The committee is intended to provide advice to me, and I am required to respond to that advice.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

The members are appointed by you, and at the same token, they serve at the pleasure of the minister. Is that correct?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes, just as many advisory bodies do in the federal government. Members are appointed by me. They are intended to work as a group and to provide independent advice to the minister. They are drawn from a range of different sectors and perspectives to ensure we're actually getting good external advice coming in to the government, which is something I think most Canadians would think is a good thing.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I would agree with MP Bachrach that it's a little bit presumptuous of you to be appointing a group.

The bill in front of us, Bill C-12, lays out how the advisory committee is reimbursed for expenses. Obviously the bill hasn't passed. If the group is already working, are these people being reimbursed right now? If that's the case, Minister, where is the money coming from?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

There are two things. First, I don't think it's presumptuous at all. Climate change is a crisis. Ministers require appropriate forums for advice, so irrespective of whether this bill proceeds through Parliament, there's a ministerial body that is actually providing important advice on the climate crisis to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change.

With respect to funding, there was funding in the strengthened climate plan for the ministerial panel, and if there are expenses, their expenses are covered. However, I would tell you, in the COVID world, there hasn't been much in the way of travel, so those expenses would be pretty limited.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Where's the money coming from? Is it coming from your own budget right now?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes, it comes from allocations flowing through Environment and Climate Change Canada.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Okay. Have those been in the mains?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

They were in the strengthened climate plan, so they will probably be in the mains next year, but—

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Could you perhaps ask your officials to refer that to us?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes. I could have my officials confirm that. I think John Moffet could confirm it right now if you want.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

No. We'll have him come in a little bit later.

This bill sets out that the advisory group is covered under the workplace compensation act in case of injury due to employment. As the bill hasn't passed, is the group not covered or are they being counted as employees, as you mentioned, under another part of the estimates?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Once again, I'm happy to have one of my officials respond to the specifics concerning the workplace compensation act.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Minister, this is your legislation.

Ultimately, Minister, if the bill decreased the—

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I'm happy to have Mr. Moffet actually provide the answer right now if you want.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I can ask him later if you don't know.

I'll go next, Minister—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Mr. Moffet, get ready. You're going to get a question on it.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Ultimately, Minister, if the bill that creates the group doesn't need to pass for you to create the group, then why is it even in the bill? It surely must be redundant and could be removed.