Environment Committee on May 17th, 2021

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Let me first clarify. What I said is that we were very clear that we were going to be developing a new target and a strengthened climate plan. We talked about moving up a range to a higher number and that we would consult, and we did that over the course of the few months before we actually announced the new target.

With respect to the minister in Saskatchewan, I spoke to him the day before I announced the target, and I said to him that we were at 36% in the budget, we knew we needed to be significantly more ambitious and we would be bringing forward a more ambitious target. We had that conversation, in fact, just hours before the target was released.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

That's excellent.

You also spoke of course corrections, and I think that's what you're getting at here.

I come from business. In order to achieve goals, you have to have lots of planning and you have to invest lots of money. In order to do that properly, you require some stability as you're looking forward into the future.

Stakeholders have complained that when the goalposts keep moving it's very difficult to implement a plan. As we move forward, are you going to keep moving those goalposts? If so, how do you expect provinces and companies to make the investments they need to make when they have to keep going back, throwing the plan out and coming up with a new one?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I agree with you entirely. I also come from the business community, so I understand the importance of certainty with respect to business investment. Certainly it has been very clear, and this government has been very clear and most other parties in Parliament have been very clear that there is a need for enhanced ambition. That's not new. That's something that people have been talking about for years. It is in line with science and what science tells us we must do, so there's no big surprise here.

However, what I would say is that they do require certainty with respect to major policy instruments. That's why I was very pleased a few weeks ago to see the Conservative Party actually endorse a carbon tax and a clean fuel standard, two policies they have been fighting for the past number of years and things that are really important in terms of having certainty. Therefore, I welcome the Conservative Party actually coming to the party.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

With this 40% to 45% target, is it your expectation that every single province will have to reduce by that same 40% to 45%, or do some provinces have different targets? What's your thinking there?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

In this country we have a constitution. The federal government has to respect provincial jurisdiction. We are not in a position to tell provinces what their targets need to be, but there certainly are provinces that have taken up the climate challenge in a much more aggressive way. I would point to the Government of Quebec, the Government of British Columbia and the Government of Nova Scotia as real climate champions on this issue.

With respect to the federal government, we are using tools that fall within federal jurisdiction. That includes the price on pollution, the clean fuel standard, a range of other regulatory mechanisms and the significant investments that we are making to work with large emitters across this country, including very much in Alberta and Saskatchewan, to ensure that we're actually working towards reducing emissions in a way that's consistent with economic prosperity.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

In Saskatchewan, have you done analysis on the economic impacts that this would have in terms of jobs?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I think you'd have to be a little more precise with this, but our view would be that there is an enormous economic opportunity here and Canadians need to seize it. We are moving, as a global community, to a lower-carbon future. We need to actually prepare Canada to be successful in that future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thanks.

Mr. Baker.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us here with us today. Minister, it's a pleasure to speak with you.

I would say, Minister, that my constituents in Etobicoke Centre are very concerned about the impact of climate change, and I think they expect us to do everything possible to protect the planet. They expect the Government of Canada to ensure that our emissions, in Canada and globally, are reduced to the degree necessary to achieve that objective.

Over the last few months, our government has taken important steps and announced significant investments, including in the last budget, to fight climate change. Just a few weeks ago, the Prime Minister announced new emissions reduction targets.

For the sake of my constituents in Etobicoke Centre, could you summarize what emissions reduction targets our government has committed to, and to what degree this will reduce our emissions?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for that very important question. I think constituents in many ridings around the country are asking similar questions.

As you know very well, climate change is an existential threat to humanity, but it's also a massive economic opportunity for countries that move early and move aggressively. When our government took power five years ago, Canada's emissions were going the wrong way. They were on track to be 12% higher in 2030 versus where they were in 2005.

We developed Canada's first national climate plan. It will reduce emissions dramatically. In December, we brought forward a strengthened climate plan that provides a very detailed pathway for Canada to exceed its initial Paris Agreement targets. The plan represents one of the most detailed plans that exists in the world.

We knew we needed to do more. Science tells us that we need to do more to avoid catastrophic effects, so in April the Prime Minister announced the new target of 40% to 45% below 2005 levels by 2030. Just to put that in context, that's an increase of up to 50% over our previous target. That was made alongside our partners and friends in the United States, Japan, the European Union and the United Kingdom. Collectively, half of the world's GDP is now aligned with the goal of limiting temperature increase to 1.5°C. It is both ambitious and attainable, and puts us on a credible path to net zero.

This legislation is extremely important in ensuring that it continues.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, could you summarize—again, for the benefit of my constituents in Etobicoke Centre, who may not follow this very closely—how the Canadian net-zero emissions accountability act fits in with our Paris commitments?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As I mentioned, during the Leaders Summit, we announced the new target. That is a significant increase.

The Paris Agreement, as Ms. May pointed out, calls on countries to limit global warming to less than 2°C, with a focus on 1.5°C.

The Canadian net-zero emissions accountability act is aligned with the Paris Agreement's requirement for increasing ambition over time. In addition, when setting greenhouse gas emissions targets, the minister needs to take into account the best scientific information available, as well as Canada's international commitments.

As we work towards these new ambitious targets, the bill makes clear that we need to look beyond 2030 and to ensure that governments of all stripes in the future are thinking through how we actually take the steps we need to achieve net zero by 2050. That is what this bill does.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Is that it, Mr. Baker? Do you have another question?

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

No, that's all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Good.

Ms. Michaud, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Kristina Michaud]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to come back to the new target range of 40% to 45% reduction compared to the 2005 base year emissions.

Currently, to meet the minimum 30% reduction target, Canada's emissions would have to reach 511 megatonnes in 2030, or 517, depending on how it is calculated. However, according to the Department of the Environment's estimates, they would total 588 megatonnes at that time. So we have a 77-megatonne surplus. I am talking about the latest figures received. Of course, if the department has new projections, we will be very happy to get them whether they are more optimistic or pessimistic. We have to keep in mind that all the measures announced may not be implemented by 2030.

I would like to know how you can announce figures like 40% to 45% when your own department's data show a somewhat less optimistic scenario.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for your question.

You give figures that come from the pan-Canadian framework. We have obviously done many other things: we have made investments and several things on the regulatory front, in the strengthened climate plan. We've also taken a number of additional measures to reduce GHG emissions.

Of course, this will be reflected in the department's projections, as will the investments included in the 2020-2021 budget in the coming weeks.

[Kristina Michaud]

When the 2020-2021 budget announcements were made, it was said that implementing these new measures would reduce GHGs by 36% by 2030. However, your target remains a 40% to 45% reduction. So there is a shortfall in this respect.

In your opening remarks, you mentioned working with American colleagues. Will this new collaboration make up for the shortfall? Will it be enough?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Please keep your answer brief.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

We are working very closely with the Americans, particularly on transportation and methane. We are also working on other issues, such as the export of hydroelectricity produced in Quebec. Of course, these efforts are reflected in the 36% reduction target.

As I have already mentioned, we obviously need to increase our efforts.

The truth is that, for the past nine years, Canadians have thought we needed to do more.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

This is perfect.

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you've already established the net-zero advisory body prior to finalizing the legislation that enables its establishment. I think for many people this feels a little bit like putting the cart before the horse. Why not wait until C-12 has been finalized before appointing members to the advisory body?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

I would say to you that this is a climate crisis. I think your party, my party, the Bloc Québécois and the Green Party all voted to indicate that this is a crisis. It's a crisis on which we have a finite amount of time to make the kind of progress we need to make.

The decision was mine. It was to establish a ministerial panel to begin the work of assessing pathways to net zero by 2050 to ensure that we were making the progress we need to make. Once this bill is passed through both the House of Commons and the Senate, it will become law and there will be a Governor in Council panel. My expectation is that it will be very similar but that is something that will only happen once it passes through Parliament.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Can I assume then that you're open to amendments that would change the criteria for appointments to that body?