Evidence of meeting #34 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transition.
A video is available from Parliament.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
That's excellent. Thank you.
Professor Wright, again I want to get to the origins of the commissioner for the environment and sustainable development. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who—well, I shouldn't say I'm the only one; I'm sure our chair remembers the 1993 Liberal Red Book, which promised that we would have—
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
I know you do. We're the only ones here who remember all those hearings when Charles Caccia chaired the environment committee.
We discussed what we were going to do to create a commissioner for the environment and sustainable development. The idea of putting it within the Office of the Auditor General was somewhat controversial. We wondered if that would be enough. Would that work?
Given what we've learned over the decades, Professor Wright, I'll put this forward. I think we should have an independent environmental commissioner who reports to Parliament, as opposed to being inside the Office of the Auditor General. Do you have a view on that?
Prof. David V. Wright
It's a huge multi-decadal question, Ms. May, as you know. It's complicated and it goes in both directions.
One of the benefits of having the commissioner's office in the Office of the Auditor General is that it's well resourced and it has a lot of bench strength. It does not engage in policy debate, so it is able to build and maintain credibility on that front. That has also insulated the commissioner's office from the political wind. For example, with the cuts under the Harper administration years ago, the NRT was cut but the commissioner's office was not cut, although perhaps some resources were reduced.
Those are all benefits of the existing model. If that mandate is cracked open and amended in a significant way, some of those benefits may be eroded or taken away.
You really have two options. One is, as you said, to expand the office and make it a completely independent agency or office of Parliament. The other is to create a new separate institution that is in the likeness of what you've all been discussing, so NRT 2.0, if you will, a National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy 2.0.
Green
Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC
Yes, I think that's one of the losses, the loss of the national round table. I think Bill C-12 is weakened by essentially putting in a mini round table of multi-stakeholder concerns instead of an expert group. If we could recreate the national round table—but that's a topic for another day.
How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses who are here today. It's really great to have all of you here and to hear your different perspectives.
Let me start with you, Professor Wright. You talked about coherence at the domestic level, but in November you wrote a blog post that said, and I quote, “The bill creates a direct link between international climate change reporting requirements and the domestic regime.”
Could you expand on this?
Prof. David V. Wright
Yes. Thanks for the question.
As you all know, under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change and the Paris Agreement, Canada has a number of regular reporting obligations in the form of annual emission inventories, such as for example, biennial reports that include projections of where the emissions are and where they're going.
Bill C-12 takes a step towards domesticating those obligations, so in many ways there is emerging alignment between those international reporting obligations and the creation of similar obligations on the domestic front. It's not a negative thing in many cases. This may be a cut-and-paste job of taking what's being submitted to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change secretariat and putting it in the reports required under Bill C-12. I think that's a good thing. It reduces the reporting burden, but it also aligns and puts front and centre domestically what Canada is doing or perhaps is not doing.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Let me turn to you, Ms. Peel, because MP May raised the question of a just transition, and I want to expand on that a little bit.
One thing we have seen with the advisory body is that we have a lot of diversity, and also with the addition of Hassan Yussuff. I am wondering what you think the importance is of labour having a seat at the table when we have that just transition so that it doesn't leave anybody behind.
Health, Safety and Environment Coordinator, Canadian Labour Congress
Workers right now are already feeling the impacts of climate change. We see just transition not only as a matter of fairness but also as a driver of ambition.
Sometimes we think about a just transition in very loose ways. Having workers at the table developing plans with employers and governments is the path to being more ambitious, so having labour at the table developing these plans is critical.
We know that when we talk about a just transition, it is not about slowing down progress: It is about making sure we have the ability to go as far as we need to, as fast as we need to, to avert the worst impacts of climate change, so—
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Actually, I'm glad you mentioned that point, because I want to elaborate. That was my second question.
How do we have that seamless transition for workers without slowing down the necessary steps that we need to get to net zero as quickly as possible?
Health, Safety and Environment Coordinator, Canadian Labour Congress
There are multiple ways to do that. I think much of that could be done in a just transition act that looks, sector by sector, at how you actually develop those plans.
We know it's possible for employers to make the decision that they're going to transition into 100% renewable, for example, and they're going to start from a position that there will be no involuntary layoffs: “If you want to come with us, we will make sure that you have the skills, training and the ability to come with us into this new emissions-reduction world.” The decisions we make now will really impact whether....
The other piece of that, of course, is making sure that the new jobs, as we invest in emissions reductions, are good jobs with decent labour standards, and that they're good-quality, family-supporting, community-supporting jobs.
We want that. When you ask workers about what a just transition means to them, they want to know where the new jobs are, what they need to do access those jobs and where the place is for them in this new net-zero economy.
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Chair, that's a perfect segue to Mr. Heaps, if he is available.
Liberal
Liberal
Raj Saini Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Mr. Heaps, I read an article you wrote, I think last year in June. One of the things you mentioned was that a unified federal strategy would unleash almost $30 trillion worth of opportunity.
Can you elaborate on the economic opportunities to make sure that businesses are well prepared when Bill C-12 is implemented? What are the opportunities for Canadian businesses, and why is a unified federal strategy very important to access those opportunities?
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder, Corporate Knights Inc.
At the top of the opportunities, first would be—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Could you hold your mike up so we get less echo? There's a mike there, right?
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder, Corporate Knights Inc.
It's here at my lips.
Liberal
Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder, Corporate Knights Inc.
Thank you for the question. The top three opportunities would be the following.
First, it is not obvious for everyone in the building sector that Canada has 12 of the top 50 landlords in the world, the largest commercial real estate investors, starting at Brookfield and all the way down, in large part because of the investment from our strong pension funds, and we have the ability to export this low-carbon building technology through these portfolios that exist in Asia, Latin America and North America. It's a huge opportunity for us to export our green building prowess. That's number one.
Number two lies with Canada's huge land mass, both on the forest side and the agriculture side. If the world is hungry for sustainable food, we have a big opportunity to turn our agriculture sector into a carbon-positive source of food.
Lastly, on batteries, there's a huge opportunity. All the raw ingredients for batteries are—