Environment Committee on Nov. 18th, 2020

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Hayes, you mentioned the limited budget. I am concerned that the Liberal government isn't providing adequate resources for the office of the environment commissioner to do its important work, especially given the reduction in the amount of environmental audits compared with the last four years.

It does sound that way to me, given what Ms. Hogan said about finding the right place for the right people and that these environmental auditors are now sharing that knowledge doing other audits. I'm curious on your take. I've put forward a motion to make the role of the environment commissioner an independent agent of Parliament. I'm curious what the difference would be in the work, specifically for environmental audits and for budgeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Respond very briefly, please.

[Andrew Hayes]

I would say that the political decision to carve off the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development would mean that the agent of Parliament, if that motion was to be passed, would have to also set up an office and have their own staff. They would end up making all the decisions and their funding would be set for specifically that purpose. It would be a marked departure from the system we have right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay. I have a couple of things. We now go back to the Conservatives, and I'm assuming that we keep the same order as previously. That's number one.

Number two, it's 5:30, and I'm wondering, first, if the committee would be open to continuing until six o'clock. As well, would the witnesses be available to stay until six?

Maybe we would could find out first if the committee wishes to continue until six.

Mr. Albas.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do have members who have been at these meetings all day. I recognize, though, that there are some other members who want to ask questions.

Maybe the chair could canvass to ask it would be fair if each member had two minutes to ask their questions. We have to respect the members who have been working all day and at the same time have made other appointments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Are you suggesting that each member of the committee get two minutes?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'm just saying that maybe you canvass and see who is actually interested. If they raise their hand, they would prefer another two minutes. If it gets to be where everyone is going to ask questions, then maybe we'll just continue with the regular round, but I think there may be only one or two members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I assume no one on the Conservative side wants to ask a question at this point. Is that what you're saying?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I think everyone on my side is fine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Ms. Collins, do you have more questions?

Do you have any other questions, Ms. Pauzé?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

No, thank you.

I would rather present a motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Okay.

Do the Liberals have any other questions?

Mr. Saini, do you have any questions?

Let me know if you have any other questions.

I see no further questions, so Ms. Collins, would you like to take two and a half minutes?

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

That would be wonderful. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Hogan, we had been talking before about how the job of the Office of the Auditor General and the commissioner of the environment and sustainable development is really to assess the risks to Canadians, to focus on the most important of those risks and then to audit the federal government's response to them. Assessing environmental risk requires unique experience and expertise in the field in which those audits are occurring.

From what I've heard you say, it's not necessarily a real allocation, but many of those performance auditors are working on other audits and sharing their knowledge. It sounds like there have been fewer environmental audits happening over the past year in comparison with the four years before.

I'm curious how you see this expertise being used within the office. If, in fact, there haven't been hires or even recruitment for environmental experts, how is that environmental expertise occurring in your office?

[Karen Hogan]

We do have a lot of environmental expertise within our office. We have individuals like Ms. Leach, who is here and has been with the office and working in the environment for most of her career—for decades.

We have a lot of incredible individuals who have tons of years of experience. Where we feel that we have a gap we will absolutely hire that expertise. Hopefully we will be successful in getting additional funding as we embark on increasing our capacity and rebuilding our performance audit practice. That includes performance auditors who will issue and work on things under the commissioner of the environment's banner.

We will hire all across. We will make sure that we—

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Ms. Hogan, thank you so much. That's helpful.

I hear that you'll recruit staff across all backgrounds. Specifically, I want to hear a commitment that you're going to be recruiting staff with strong environmental backgrounds.

[Karen Hogan]

Absolutely, we need experts in all fields that we plan on auditing. If we can't find them, we will get them through contracts.

[Laurel Collins, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Fabulous.

Thank you so much to the witnesses and to the members for your good questions.

I believe Madame Pauzé would like to table a motion.

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I know I need to send it to the clerk.

Further to Ms. Hogan's answer, I'd like the committee to ask the Minister of Transport to meet with us to follow up on the 2011 recommendations. A damning report came out, but no action has been taken in the last nine years.

Transporting hazardous materials means oil, gas and plastics. It is therefore within our committee's mandate to get answers about this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Great.

So you are submitting a motion to the clerk in writing, is that right?

Perfect.

Before requesting a motion to adjourn, I would like to remind committee members that we will soon begin the study requested in Ms. Collins' motion. It is a study on Volkswagen and the Canadian Environmental Protection Act.

The clerk is requesting me to ask you to deliver the list of witnesses you wish to invite for the study requested by Ms. Collins by the end of the day on Monday, November 23.

If we have nothing else, I am requesting a motion to adjourn the meeting.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I move to adjourn.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Perfect, thank you.

So I will see you all at the next meeting.