Evidence of meeting #118 for Environment and Sustainable Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quebec.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Mona Fortier Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
Then thank you again, and thanks to all the witnesses for sharing their knowledge and experiences with us.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I too would like to thank the witnesses and the members of the committee for their excellent questions.
We will take a short break to welcome the second panel of witnesses.
I would like to thank the witnesses once again for being with us this morning.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
I call the meeting back to order.
We have four new witnesses.
From the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, we have Alain Branchaud, director general of the Quebec section. Nature Québec is represented by Alice‑Anne Simard. From Litière Royal Inc., we have Eric Fortin, president. From Scieries Lac‑Saint‑Jean Inc., we have Caroline Lavoie, forest engineer.
Without further ado, we will move on to the first presentation.
Mr. Branchaud, you have five minutes.
Alain Branchaud Executive Director, Quebec, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to extend my greetings to all members of the standing committee, as well as to the other witnesses.
My name is Alain Branchaud and I am a biologist and director general of the Quebec branch of the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, or CPAWS Quebec. I also worked for about 10 years on Environment Canada's species at risk program, specifically on critical habitat protection.
Our organization's primary mission is protecting public land and biodiversity, including species at risk such as caribou.
In 2023, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change recommended to the Governor in Council that an order be issued under section 61 of the Species at Risk Act to protect all parts of the critical habitat of the boreal caribou population located in Quebec and Ontario. The Governor in Council turned down the minister's recommendation. We thought that was a good decision on the part of the Governor in Council. The political and economic repercussions of such an order would have been more detrimental to the protection of caribou and, ultimately, to the Species at Risk Act.
In 2024, the Minister of Environment and Climate Change Canada raised the issue again and recommended to the Governor in Council that an emergency order be issued under section 80 of the Species at Risk Act to protect three caribou populations in Quebec. This time, the Governor in Council responded positively to the minister's recommendation. Again, we think this is a good decision by the Governor in Council.
The emergency order proposed by the Canadian government is justified and measured. First and foremost, it's scientifically justified. For the three targeted populations, the rate of habitat disturbance is critical. Demographic trends indicate a significant decline in recent years, and activities recognized as threats to the survival and recovery of the species continue to be carried out on the ground.
The order is also justified from a biocultural perspective. Caribou are a species of great cultural and spiritual importance to many indigenous communities. Restoring them is essential to maintaining the culture, way of life and traditional practices of these communities.
What's more, the order is legally justified. Before intervening outside federal lands, the federal government must ensure that it acts in conjunction with other federal and provincial legislation in force in areas where a province or territory is not adequately fulfilling its fiduciary role to protect the species. To issue an emergency order, it must ensure that there is an imminent threat to the survival or recovery of the species. All three conditions are met in this case.
Lastly, the scope of the order is measured, covering only three of 15 caribou populations in Quebec, as well as a small proportion of the designated critical habitat. The anticipated socio-economic impact is certainly significant at the local level, but limited in the Quebec forestry sector as a whole. Solutions exist to ensure a fair transition and support for the communities that will be affected.
What is important to note is that the partial caribou protection strategy introduced by Quebec on April 30 has a lot of potential and, with major adjustments, could contribute significantly to the recovery of the species in Quebec. Unfortunately, Quebec has still not presented a clear timeline for its implementation. Given the urgent need to act for the three populations targeted by the order, it is fully justified and necessary for the federal government to adopt this emergency order. When Quebec's caribou protection strategy was tabled, CPAWS once again called on the federal minister to intervene quickly to protect populations on the brink of collapse, particularly those in Pipmuakan.
In order to facilitate a fair transition for the communities affected by the order, we recommend that the Canadian government show its hand and fast-track negotiations for a nature agreement with Quebec, as it did for Nova Scotia, Yukon and British Columbia. This potential agreement would quickly put all the stakeholders in solution mode.
The boreal caribou population is found in a number of other areas in Canada. The federal intervention does not necessarily mean that Quebec is falling short compared to other provinces or territories. Based on the reports published under section 63 of the Species at Risk Act, the federal government has all the information it needs to justify targeted interventions elsewhere in Canada where other caribou populations are on the brink of collapse.
CPAWS Quebec will soon be submitting a brief to support the adoption of the emergency measure as part of the consultations and will be making targeted recommendations to improve its scope.
Thank you for your attention.
Liberal
Alice-Anne Simard Nature Québec
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, committee members.
Thank you for inviting Nature Québec to speak today.
Nature Québec is a non-profit environmental organization that has been focusing on the conservation of natural environments and the sustainable use of resources since 1981. Our team of 30 professionals is supported by a network of volunteer scientists. Since 2019, I have been the executive director of the organization, which brings together 145,000 members and supporters. I'm a biologist with a master's degree in caribou biology.
Nature Québec supports the emergency order being considered by this committee, given the lack of action by the Government of Quebec to adequately protect the habitat of the caribou herds. These herds are on the verge of extinction following the indefinite postponement of the comprehensive strategy to protect the caribou that has been promised since 2016. There are growing concerns that indigenous nations risk losing their identity, culture, traditional activities and ancestral rights if the caribou disappear. In our view, the federal government has not only the legitimacy to issue such an order, but also a legal and moral obligation to do so. Quebec played a dangerous game and opened the door wide to this order.
At Nature Québec, we make sure that each of our positions and recommendations is based on science. When it comes to caribou, the science could not be any clearer. There is a scientific consensus on the fact that the boreal caribou herds are declining, and there is a scientific consensus on the causes of that decline. They are primarily logging and the network of logging roads that cause habitat disturbance and increased predation. These facts were corroborated in 2021 in a literature review produced by biologists employed by the Quebec government's Ministry of Forests, Wildlife and Parks.
We wanted to remind you of the scientific consensus right off the bat, because we have unfortunately heard witnesses at this committee question that consensus and make totally false statements about the state of the caribou herds and the causes of their decline. Like the chief of the Essipit Innu Nation, we are concerned that no scientists who have studied caribou have been heard by this committee. If the committee wants to know if the herds are really declining and if it is true that logging has an effect on the caribou, you should ask scientists, not forestry industry representatives.
Naturally, we at Nature Québec understand the concerns of the forestry industry and, above all, the communities that depend economically on the forest. We are in particular solidarity with the residents of Sacré‑Coeur, who are feeling a lot of anxiety right now. We want to make it clear, however, that this is not a choice between losing the caribou and losing Sacré‑Coeur, or even the entire forestry industry in Quebec, as some witnesses have suggested. That is a false dichotomy. We believe that the Government of Quebec is doing everything in its power right now to maintain this false dichotomy and worry the public by burying the solutions.
Solutions to limit the socio-economic impact of the order exist, and the Government of Quebec has known about them for a long time. In 2016, the Government of Quebec presented its action plan for the management of the boreal caribou habitat. In a summary document, or placemat, which we can forward to you afterwards, the Government of Quebec announced that it would analyze the socio-economic consequences of its action plan. The placemat is where the government announced for the first time that it was going to adopt a caribou protection strategy, which we have been waiting on for eight years. Most importantly, it was here that the Government of Quebec announced that it would conduct a systematic review of other timber supply sources when consequences on forestry potential were unavoidable. I quote from the document:
All alternatives will be assessed systematically, with a view to mitigating supply reductions for the affected mills: timber production strategy, sustainable yield concept, appropriate delimitation of management units (MUs), use of timber from the private forests, timber shipments, use of unharvested volumes (2008-2013) to mitigate the impacts, and so on.
Not only did Quebec neglect to conduct the analyses, it is now burying the solutions. The first step in limiting the socio-economic impact of the order is to conduct a procurement analysis for each mill. The Department of Natural Resources and Forestry is currently burying this information. Measures could subsequently be put in place to offset that impact. The Government of Quebec knows what they are, and it alone can implement them. By not putting forward these solutions, by releasing exaggerated figures on potential job losses, by using a crude rule of thumb to estimate the consequences, the Government of Quebec is fanning the debate, encouraging disinformation and creating unnecessary stress for workers and communities that depend on the forest. We understand that some members of the committee want to protect provincial jurisdictions, but we must not blindly protect Quebec's incompetence and lack of leadership on the issue of caribou and sustainable forest management.
Thank you.
Liberal
Eric Fortin Chief Executive Officer, Royal Wood Shavings Inc.
Good morning, everyone.
Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak today.
My name is Eric Fortin, and I am the president of Royal Wood Shavings Inc., a company we founded in 1996. The company's mission is to manufacture and distribute animal bedding in North America. On an annual basis, we supply over 12,000 horses. Over the years, we have sold over 50 million bags of bedding to a variety of prestigious customers, including the RCMP. We have three plants, two of them located in the United States. A third, Ripco, has been established since 2001 in Sacré‑Coeur, on the north shore, in partnership with the Boisaco group.
Ripco is a secondary processing plant that recovers the wood shavings from the Boisaco planer. These shavings were not previously recycled. Ninety-five per cent of our material comes from the Boisaco plant, and 45% of our production is for export.
Over the years, we have invested several million dollars, including more than $2 million in the past three years, to ensure that the plant is on the cutting edge of technology. We are part of the economic ecosystem of the north shore timber industry as a subsidiary of Boisaco.
However, the federal government's recent decision to impose an emergency order regarding caribou has led to palpable anxiety among our workers and created a climate of fear. The uncertainty caused by the order is stifling our projects and investments. From what I understand, the federal government is proposing to protect about one million hectares in the Pipmuacan area, which is the equivalent of 20 times the Island of Montreal.
Boisaco's annual harvest currently takes places on about 4,000 hectares, or 0.4% of that area. Tearing apart an entire community by depriving it of its territory in order to protect the boreal caribou ecotype is an extreme solution. If Boisaco were to shut down due to a wood supply shortage, that would signal the death knell for Ripco as well. Royal would also be severely impacted. The consequences would be devastating, not only in terms of job losses, but also for the affected families who depend on these jobs for their survival.
The social and economic impact on businesses and workers' lives of imposing such an order absolutely need to be considered. The idea that lost jobs and business will easily be replaced is far-fetched, considering that an ecosystem like the Boisaco group on the north shore was built up over four decades by people from the region. The north shore has very little industrial diversity. I can't picture Jean, our longtime press operator, retraining as a seasonal tour guide in the few years he has left before retirement.
I listened to a few excerpts from Monday's committee, and the vast majority of stakeholders of all political stripes favour co‑operation. However, the words I heard about “imposing an order” do not exactly signal “co‑operation”. I find it hard to understand the urgency of imposing such an order, after consultations conducted in the summer, to resolve an issue that has been ongoing for decades.
Whatever the intent or objective, this course of action does harm to people and businesses and stokes tensions in the community. Both levels of government have a duty to bring all stakeholders together to find a solution that will preserve jobs while protecting the boreal ecotype of the woodland caribou.
Keep in mind that the companies working in the wood processing sector have always expressed a desire to find concerted and adapted solutions to protect the boreal caribou in a spirit of sustainable development, which also helps the forestry communities flourish.
Is it not more constructive to work in that spirit than to risk a legal battle between two levels of government?
For society to prosper, our governments need to co‑operate with entrepreneurs rather than pick fights with them. Let's not forget that the businesses affected by this order play a crucial role in wealth creation, innovation and job creation, and in doing so contribute to the overall well-being of our community.
We all know that the consequences of eliminating jobs, and the resulting hardship and poverty, are extremely harmful to human beings. A study published in Psychiatry Research in 2012 indicates that an unemployed person is 16 times more likely to commit suicide.
If, let's say, 2,000 jobs are lost, there will be a likelihood of five suicides. Never mind the social and economic repercussions of the psychological distress caused by job losses. Far be it from us to say that the condition of the boreal caribou doesn't matter, but is it acceptable to intentionally sacrifice jobs and destroy families, communities and businesses?
I think about the human beings in my companies, for example, our deputy director, Marc‑André, who provides for his five young children. All of these people are dependent on their jobs. As a society, we rightly want to preserve biodiversity, but people's well-being must remain a key priority for our governments.
Dialogue and co‑operation are essential to building a society where community development and environmental protection go hand in hand.
I hope that my voice and the voices of all constituents will be heard in your deliberations.
Thank you for your attention.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you very much, Mr. Fortin.
Ms. Lavoie, you now have the floor.
Caroline Lavoie Forestry engineer, Scieries Lac-Saint-Jean Inc.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
First of all, I would like to thank the committee for allowing us to speak about the federal emergency order for the protection of boreal caribou.
My name is Caroline Lavoie, and I'm a forest engineer. Today, I am speaking on behalf of Scierie Martel, as well as Scieries Lac‑Saint‑Jean and Groupe Lignarex, both members of the Coopérative forestière Ferland‑Boilleau.
Our businesses are all unique in that they have been established in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean by local families or groups of workers. These pioneers have been busy developing not only their businesses, but also their communities. They have revitalized their communities, making it possible for hundreds of families to settle and live in the regions. As the saying goes, you have to know where you came from in order to know where you're going. I will try to make sure that we do not forget where we came from.
The forestry industry has helped build a strong, thriving Quebec. It also provides considerable revenue to the government so that it can develop and maintain its social programs. The forestry industry is far from archaic. We've been able to adapt, modernize, optimize resource usage and become a major player in achieving Canada's net-zero objective.
The forestry sector also markets wood products that are among the most environmentally friendly in the world and will eventually make it possible to eliminate single-use plastics and avoid the use of substitute products with a larger carbon footprint. Besides all that, these products come from areas certified under internationally recognized sustainable forest management standards.
The forestry industry is a prime example of sustainable development. We're harvesting trees from forests that have already been harvested once, and sometimes twice. We're talking about green aluminum and green steel. How could anyone forget that nothing is greener than the forest?
Mr. Gilbert, Mr. St‑Gelais and Mr. Verreault have told you about the provisional order areas of Pipmuacan and Val‑d'Or. I will focus on the provisional order area of Charlevoix, because it affects a lot of the territory where we have traditionally operated. Keep in mind that the Charlevoix herd disappeared in 1920, and 82 individuals were reintroduced in the early 1970s. In February 2022, the 21 individuals who made up the herd at the time were captured and penned. Today, the herd is made up of 31 animals. The provisional order area covered by the Charlevoix herd covers nearly 3,000 square kilometres, plus adjacent protected areas of 1,608 square kilometres, for a total of 4,608 square kilometres. That is the equivalent of 12 times the Island of Montreal. Might I remind you that there are now 31 individuals, which would correspond to a density of approximately 0.8 caribou in all of Montreal.
We are not refuting the need to protect caribou in Quebec, far from it. Since 2003, the provincial government, in partnership with industry, first nations, and other stakeholders, has made efforts to ensure their recovery. I myself have participated in all the processes that the government has proposed to us as we work with the first nations to develop a planning strategy for the protection of the caribou habitat that maintains the sustainable development balance.
Section 80 of the Species at Risk Act allows for an emergency order to be issued if the minister believes there are imminent threats to the species. We feel that the Charlevoix herd does not meet the criteria for imposing such a decree. There are two reasons for that: first, equivalent or even superior measures are currently proposed in the pilot project tabled on April 30 by Quebec City; second, the penning of the herd's 31 individuals immediately removes them from any imminent threat. For these reasons, we believe it would be legitimate for the federal government to amend its order to completely remove the provisional area within the Charlevois boreal caribou range.
Implementing the order in its entirety would remove nearly 17% of our companies' supply territory, which would irrevocably result in permanent closures and estimated losses of nearly 1,500 jobs, including mine.
I will conclude my remarks by making two requests of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development. I ask you to remember where we come from and to consider the true value of the forestry industry so that it can continue its immeasurable contribution to the three pillars of sustainable development in Quebec. I would also ask you to trust the provincial government, which has jurisdiction over wildlife and forest management, to develop appropriate strategies to protect both the boreal caribou and the forestry industry.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you, Ms. Lavoie.
Once again, we will start with Mr. Martel.
Mr. Martel.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Again, I thank the witnesses speaking here today.
My first question is for Mr. Branchaud.
As you know, when speaking about the adverse economic repercussions of the order, Mr. Pier‑Olivier Boudreault, director of conservation at the Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society, or CPAWS, said that you cannot make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
I have a question. Why do we need to protect land in a wildlife reserve in the Laurentians when the caribou are already safe in their enclosure?
Executive Director, Quebec, Canadian Parks and Wilderness Society
Restoring an endangered species involves more than just protecting individuals. We have to make projections to ensure that a population becomes self-sufficient. The purpose of recovering an endangered species is not to create zoos everywhere, with species in enclosures or aquariums, but to have a natural environment where populations can reproduce and be self-sufficient. We are currently relying heavily on enclosures to ensure the survival of this population. We will see what happens. However, to protect a species like the caribou, we absolutely must protect its habitat. The science is very clear on this and there is no scientific doubt about the need to bring in measures to address the activities that are harmful to the caribou. Current practices used by the forestry industry are the main cause of the decline in the caribou populations across Canada, not just in Quebec.
I invite people to look to the future. If we protect what we need to protect now to achieve everyone's goal, to protect the caribou, we will create predictability and be able to determine how to practise forestry without harming the caribou's habitat—
August 30th, 2024 / 12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Mr. Branchaud, sorry to interrupt you. I appreciate what you are saying, but I would also like to talk to Ms. Lavoie.
Ms. Lavoie, we often talk about the habitat of the boreal caribou, but I often hear that the caribou end up in freshly cut forests to find food. I would not go so far as to use the word contradiction, but what are your thoughts on this?
Forestry engineer, Scieries Lac-Saint-Jean Inc.
The caribou are opportunists. If they see an opportunity to nourish themselves more easily in younger stands, they will move in. I am not a scientist, a caribou expert, but caribou are going to use the land that is available to them. Is that land ideal? I cannot say, but they are going to use what is available.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Ms. Lavoie, if we look at the current acreage being considered by the provincial government, what percentage of your land supply would be affected?
Forestry engineer, Scieries Lac-Saint-Jean Inc.
As I said in my speech, with the order, we are talking about 17%. The current provincial scenarios, both in Pipmuacan and the Charlevoix area, still cut 20% of our land supply. Roughly 5% of these areas are common. A third of our land supply is affected and that does not count the call for protected area projects under way, following which other land could be removed from developable land.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Ms. Lavoie, what are the adverse effects of reducing forestry availability to humans? You experienced that during the plant closure in 2008.
Forestry engineer, Scieries Lac-Saint-Jean Inc.
Yes. I was working at Louisiana‑Pacific when the plant closed in 2008. I experienced the end of production. When the plant closed, I watched everyone leave with their lunchbox, not knowing what would happen the next day. Among the workers were spouses who both worked at the plant. The entire family was affected. We saw people leaving the region, divorces; we saw human stress. I can tell you that the stress runs deep in our communities. It is not a fear campaign. These are the facts. If the order is applied, there will be closures. Human tragedy will be inevitable.
Conservative
Richard Martel Conservative Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
You speak with passion. We can feel it. You speak with pride. I would like you to use that same pride to tell us about the forestry sector's business model in our region.
Forestry engineer, Scieries Lac-Saint-Jean Inc.
In Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean, the forestry sector binds the region. Many municipalities are single-industry towns. The forestry industry represents 37.4% of the entire manufacturing sector in Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean. If it goes away, the entire region will be devitalized. That does not mean that every industry will shut down. However, because of the way the system is set up right now, because our volumes are regional, a drop in forestry potential will affect everyone in the region. If the entire industry is weakened, that will be a disaster for the Saguenay—Lac‑Saint‑Jean region.
What is more, there has been little talk of the paper mills. As I said, the forestry industry has modernized and optimized its operations. Trees are 100%—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Francis Scarpaleggia
Thank you. Unfortunately, I must interrupt in order to give the floor to Ms. Taylor‑Roy.
Liberal
Sophie Chatel Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to all our witnesses.
Today's discussions are very interesting, but so were last week's. I think some consensus is emerging. I think that all the players, including those from the forestry, agree that there is no economy without the environment. The economy cannot be built out of thin air. It requires a solid environment.
The potential disappearance of the caribou is a sign of the decline of our forests. There does not seem to be any dissent on that. In my riding, Pontiac, there are some good forestry industries. The industry has evolved and adopted sustainable practices both for production and export. Consumers are looking more and more for sustainable practices and the industry has adapted.
However, let's be clear; it is the governments' responsibility to protect the environment, not just for us, for today's jobs, but also for those of tomorrow. I heard Chief Dufour say that he would like his children to be able to continue working in the forestry sector. It is the governments' responsibility to set clear objectives. When we talk about the decline in caribou populations, we are talking about the decline in the forest and the forestry industry in the long term.
It is important to seek consensus from all the players on this. We have to work together. We need consensus to find solutions. We have publicly said that as soon as Quebec adopts appropriate measures and states its strategic plan for protecting the caribou's environment, for protecting our forests and our future, we will no longer need the order.
I would like to address Mr. Branchaud.
How long have you been asking the Government of Quebec to do more for the caribou?