Environment Committee on Sept. 16th, 2024

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

There is always the problem of jurisdiction between Quebec City and Ottawa. It's a recurring question for serious parliamentarians and legislators.

Ms. Plotkin, in your opinion, what is the federal government's role and responsibility in maintaining and ensuring the survival of the boreal caribou species?

[Rachel Plotkin]

When I started my talk, I said that I was here when the federal Species at Risk Act was being debated and brought into force. The idea of the federal Species at Risk Act is that it had a safety net so that the first onus was on the provinces to take responsibility for the wildlife within their provinces. However, because wildlife is an issue of national importance, there had to be a measure, if the provinces were failing and only in rare circumstances, by which the federal government would take the leadership needed to ensure that measures are taken so that species don't become extirpated.

In all fairness, I think the way the act has been implemented by every government since it was brought into force is to use the emergency or critical habitat protection order as a threat, to say to the provinces, “We are going to do this unless you change,” to try to motivate provinces to have the political will to take the steps needed to protect and recover caribou. When provinces continually fail time and again.... It has been years. The first science about what caribou need to survive came out in 2008—again, under the federal government—and when provinces continue to just ignore it and stall, then I do think measures need to be taken to afford caribou habitat protection.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You have 20 seconds left, Mr. Boulerice.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

I offer them to you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you.

We are buying them; we need them this morning.

Mr. Kram, you have three minutes.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I take this opportunity to move the following motion that was submitted to the clerk last Friday:

That the committee invite the Minister of Environment and Climate Change to appear before the committee for no less than two hours, within 14 days of the adoption of this motion, in relation to his priorities for the return of Parliament and his mandate.

I believe Minister Guilbeault will be appearing before this committee on Wednesday, but only to discuss the caribou emergency order. There are many other issues, of course, that built up over the summer that need the committee's attention—namely the $8-billion net-zero accelerator fund, the government's unrealistic electric vehicles mandate and, of course, the carbon tax, which the government plans to raise yet again next spring—so I think it is prudent to invite Minister Guilbeault to the committee to answer questions on these and other important issues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I have Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

I appreciate the eagerness on the first day back to Parliament, and I'm certainly willing to discuss the motion at hand, but out of respect for our witnesses, I think we should continue with the meeting.

I'd ask that we adjourn debate on this motion at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

We'll have a vote on the motion to adjourn debate.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)

The motion is accepted.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Chair, just for clarification, that was to adjourn debate on bringing the minister forward to talk about his fall plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

It was to adjourn debate on the motion while we have guests.

Let's continue the meeting.

We'll now go to Ms. Taylor Roy for three minutes.

Excuse me, it's actually Mrs. Chatel's turn. She also wanted to be on the list.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A number of jobs in my community depend on forestry.

Today we've heard the unions approach the government and the forestry industry to really rethink forestry. They want us to be able to provide children in our rural communities with jobs today and tomorrow that they can be proud of and that will allow them to prosper and fully participate in the economy of tomorrow.

The employees are making a heartfelt plea, and I hear it loud and clear in my region.

The employees have ideas, and we have to listen to them. The unions have actually proposed one of those ideas, which would be to stop producing four-by-fours and then send them to the United States or elsewhere. We can do more with the wood we have. We can do more processing. We have extremely well-trained and highly skilled employees who work hard.

Madam Plotkin, you were at the point in your opening remarks where you were about to say the “good news”. The good news is resetting the industry so that we can all prosper, especially in rural Canada. I really wanted to hear about that.

[Rachel Plotkin]

It's not just me; I've heard even this morning a number of things that can be done so that the pressure is taken off caribou habitat. I think they talked this morning about systems of compensation; having companies able to trade wood supply; having, as you mentioned, more value-added products, where there's more value put on the products in Canada before they're shipped out of the country; and also reducing the amount of wood that gets turned into things that are disposable, such as paper towels, Amazon cardboard boxes and things that people just use and then discard.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Other solutions that are also being considered include rebuilding our forests and developing them more sustainably. We have expertise in rural communities, so we can do more of that as well.

[Rachel Plotkin]

Yes. Again, there are so many smart people out there. There's so much at stake. If the mandate is given and the province has the political will, we can figure out how we can do forestry in a way that's truly sustainable, where we're maintaining habitat for species that need it, where we're maybe increasing our rotation ages and where we're involving indigenous people in the decision-making processes.

A rethink of forestry has to be done. Caribou are kind of the gong that's bringing it to everyone's attention.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

What I really like is turning a challenge into an opportunity.

Transforming a challenge into an opportunity is what you're saying. This is where we are. We have to put politics aside. We have to work together. We have to do it now, for our workers.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Is it Ms. Pauzé or Mr. Simard who will be speaking?

[Monique Pauzé, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I want to quickly go back to what Mrs. Chatel said.

I would simply point out to her that many people have been calling for this transformation in the forestry sector for years. Unfortunately, 75% of all government assistance to the forestry sector is in the form of loans. My region, Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean, contributes more to the federal government per year than all the financial support provided to the sector. So federal government support for the transition from commodities to more processing is non-existent and always has been. It seems to me that the government has some soul-searching to do.

Finally, I have a question for Mr. Bélanger, who was part of the recovery team. Perhaps Mr. Bélanger knew the late Claude Villeneuve very well, who helped us a great deal when it came to the forestry sector and caribou. Mr. Villeneuve told us that we shouldn't underestimate the impact of climate change on caribou habitat.

I know that some wildlife biologists don't necessarily agree with this argument, but I would like to hear what Mr. Bélanger thinks about it. Does he believe that climate change, particularly in Pipmuacan reservoir area, will have an effect on the northward migration of certain caribou herds?

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

You only have 15 seconds. Answer very briefly, please.

[Louis Bélanger]

According to the latest research and simulations, no, the caribou will always remain in place. Climate change is coming. The caribou will have to adapt, but it's still within the climate envelope that maintains the boreal caribou.

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Boulerice, you have a minute and a half.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've heard from many witnesses and understand just how important the forestry industry is to Quebec's economy. It offers good jobs that are often unionized. We want to do everything we can to protect and maintain them, while protecting an endangered species.

Mr. Bélanger, you said something earlier that didn't escape me. You said we were already logging too much. I'd like you to tell me a little more about that. What's your vision for the future of the sector and the preservation of industries and jobs in that perspective?

[Louis Bélanger]

I'll give you a concrete example. The Capitale-Nationale region was the subject of a pilot project to establish regional wood production strategies. An economic analysis of harvestable wood was done. For the Capitale-Nationale region, from Portneuf to Charlevoix, it was concluded that 30% of the forestry potential was not economically harvestable. Since we aren't going to harvest that part of the wood, we're putting even more pressure on quality forests. This leads to a drop in overall quality and a drop in forest diameters. Even the—

[The Chair, Liberal, Francis Scarpaleggia]

I apologize for interrupting you, but it seems that the sound quality isn't up to standard. The interpreters had to stop interpreting what you were saying.

Mr. Boulerice, I'll give you 10 seconds to wrap up, summarize, say what you want.